doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Gripping your gun

Another thread got me thinking about this and I tho't I'd put down a couple things I've found out, by trial and error, about the way I grip a shotgun when shooting. There are two aspects I will address..............the shape of the grip, and how tightly I hold the gun in my hands. These are just things I have found to be true for me, and the personal experiences of anyone is welcomed, and appreciated.

As I mentioned many times before, in my experience, straight gripped guns and heavy loads are not compatible, as it relates to shooting my best. I found this out many years ago when I bought an A grade A H Fox, 12 gauge, 3" chambers, 32" barrels and a straight grip. It was fitted with a serviceable recoil pad. I found that when I shot it I got a lot of gun movement in my hands.............enough so to be disconcerting and causing me to be slower in getting the gun back on for the second shot, whether it be to kill a second duck with the second barrel, or try again after a miss. My 9 lb. 7 oz. HE Fox does not "jump around" like this when I shoot the same heavy loads in it, it being a pistol-grip gun. I shoot heavy guns well, my main target gun weighing 9 lbs. 3 oz., and I tend to hold a gun rather loosely and let it recoil as it will, not liking to try and manhandle the recoil by holding it tightly into my shoulder. This does not contribute positively to good shooting, IMO. Hand strength would likely be a factor in this, and being a farmer that has pulled wrenches most of my life, I think my hand strength is not lacking, but certainly there are some much stronger than I. Nash Buckingham comes to mind. He was a big man, strong and athletic, and liked straight gripped Super Foxes, so evidently this wasn't an issue for him.

The other issue with how we hold a shotgun is a bit more technical. I found out this personal tenet only after building a pattern plate on my farm. I am a perfectionist as far as regulation of patterns goes, with doubleguns, of course. And with a single or double barreled gun, the plate enables me to determine if the gun is shooting where I'm looking, or not. I found that with S x Ss, particularly the lightweight ones, how tightly I hold the gun affects regulation greatly. As many know, the gun begins to recoil at the instant the shot charge begins movement down bore, and enough of the recoil occurs while the shot charge is still in the barrel to affect where it hits after it's downrange. A S x S recoils horizontally in the direction of the barrel being fired............the right barrel being fired causes the gun to recoil right, and vice versa, because of it's distance off the centerline axis of the barrel set (imagine a line dead under the center of the top rib and midway from top to bottom of the barrels). Of course, the reason this is important is that if the barrels were joined truly parallel, neither would print it's pattern at point of aim. The barrels are joined in convergence, towards the muzzles, to counteract the lateral forces of recoil on the pattern placement. Now to the point. How tightly we hold the S x S determines to a degree how much it recoils away from that axis, and results in where it prints it's pattern laterally, and to a small degree, vertically. I have found that, in every instance, my holding a lightweight S x S too tightly causes it to crossfire it's patterns. "Manhandling" it doesn't allow it to recoil horizontally enough to place the patterns atop each other, which is the ideal scenario. I can shoot the plate and see this without question.

So, how do YOU hold a shotgun, and have you ever patterned it to see if holding it differently causes the pattern to shift? I have a shooting buddy that grips his Beretta so tightly that sometimes I expect it to holler "Ouch!" before he calls "pull". Consistency is key to top shooting, but finding out where the gun is shooting, beforehand, is ultra-important.

Just a bunch of rambling............feel free to ignore it if you'd like.

SRH

I don't shoot like you do.
I purposely pried myself away from a rifleman's style to a smooth and dynamic one. Left hand and right, working in concert. No aiming, no sustained lead, no measuring, limited time in the pocket.
I've read that you shoot everything premounted.

It is essential that the butt is tucked precisely into my shoulder pocket, with no movement upon firing. My left hand (not my right) is guiding the barrels to the target.

I get no movement in my right hand grip regardless of stock style. Unless I am moving between triggers front/back, back front, etc.

That said, due to an ancient wrist injury, vertical target gun pistol grips pound the wrist bones together and it swells up. So I avoid anything tighter than a POW.

I suspect shooting style plays a large role in what you are observing.

A couple of clarifications may need to be made. I do not shoot "everything" premounted. My comments on straight grip guns referred to heavy loads, and the guns they are used in are duck guns and pigeon guns. I wouldn't know how to begin to go about shooting a duck premounted. Doves, either. Quail either. I premount for sporting clays and flyers, but not for FITASC (obviously). So, you are laboring under a misconception ("I don't shoot like you do"), about how I shoot. Certainly, we may not shoot alike, probably don't, but it's not because I premount for everything.

However, I fail to see how premounting has anything to do with what takes place upon the shell firing. Everyone is premounted before slapping the trigger, unless they're shooting from the hip. A premounted gun, as well, is nicely "tucked into my shoulder pocket", as you say.

Interesting that you get no gun movement upon firing. Do you shoot many 1 1/4 to 1 5/8 oz. loads out of straight gripped guns? That was the point of the first part of my post.

Thanks for the comments..........SRH

Pure rookie comments, Stan. I believe I shoot with a relatively light hand grip on a gun, but I can sense a bit of tightening up. In truth, it's probably a slight flinch and I can pick it up depending on the shooting.

I close my eyes when I'm try mounting especially a different gun and feel for the shoulder, cheek and probably if my left elbow is at its normal bend and angle off to the left. Then, I see if I think I have the right sighting picture.

I think I like the touch of a pistol grip on my right palm area more for being repetitive, and maybe for managing some twisting component to recoil. I don't own, or have much experience shooting one, but I think a diamond cross section straight grip wrist, that's likely fitted close enough, gives much more tactile feedback than some others.

The thing I really try to do is have my feet, knees and hip sort of anchored as one unit and my shoulders, arms, cheek, head and gun kept aligned as another component. Then, at least the majority of the flexing and movement is in my midsection. It doesn't necessarily work, and it used to be easier. Fun topic to toss around.

I have never been able to grip a gun too tightly and shoot it well. I just seem to loose the ability to swing it smoothly. And don't get me going on flinching. Tight grip leads me to flinching. Found that out shooting too much .375 and .458 on year.

When I shoot a straight grip gun, the shape grip and fore end are important to me, more than LOP or drop. I shoot a larger beaver tail fore end better than a very skinny splinter. Big hands like big grips. But a big fat beaver tail fore end looks like crap on a gun to me so tend to not own them. If the butt has a grip that is shaped like a diamond or fat oval I can shoot it well, even with a fairly small splinter. If it is flat straight grip or a very small straight grip I just can not adjust well enough to shoot it consistently. And shooting consistently is what it is all about.

Using a pattern plate can give you a lot of information but you are shooting directly at the plate, not swinging or being active. So I'd take the results with a small grain of salt. I pay a lot of attention to how clay targets or live birds react when they are shot. All information helps. And whatever makes you a better shot is fine with me.

That is the same for me. I have big hands & even the Prince of Wales grip on one of my guns is really too skinny for my hand.
The hand needs to be not closing up too tightly on a small grip or be over extended trying to get a grip on something too fat.
There is a natural grip size for hand size in there somewhere.
A comfortable & naturally manageable handfull.
O.M

I grip a shotgun just tight enough that I have positive control. I grip the wrist tighter than the forearm holding a pretty light forearm. A death grip on a shotgun lends to poor shooting; it interrupts fluidity, I believe. I prefer a straight grip for double trigger guns.

As Buzz said, a tight grip leads to poor shooting. One can't move properly if your muscles are tight. The gun just lays in my hands. JMHO

I have owned very few straight grip guns, but the ones I have had I liked. Can't actually recall if I have shot any load heavier than the 3 3/4-1� while using a straight grip or not. I didn't notice any particular undue recoi with the ones I have used, though I was never particularly recoil sensitive.

I will note that Nash Buckingham's original #1 Bo-Whoop was an HE Fox with straight grip. While he did on occasion shoot it for other purposes with lighter loads it was primarily his waterfowl gun. His most favored load for this was the Winchester SuperX 3" load of 1 3/8 oz of luballoy #4's.

After this gun was lost & Nash's friends replaced it for him Bert Becker made a mistake & #2 had a pistol grip. From his writings Nash always regretted this mistake as he much preferred the straight grip. I don't recall him ever saying how tightly he gripped his guns, though he may have mentioned it.

I'm an avid bird hunter and not much of a target shooter. My shotgun preferences lean towards game guns with straight grips and splinter fore ends. Many years ago I shot PGs and full beaver tailed guns but have evolved to my current preference.
Your personal choice and what works best for you is what is important.