doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Westley Richards Heronshaw Model

Not the American market, but direct commentary from Diggory Hadoke on the market at issue:

"That was then, this is now.
Best hammer guns, strangely enough, are still holding their value quite well, despite a general downturn in prices for traditional British guns.

A few years ago, a good Westley Richards boxlock would command £4,500 retail. Today half that would be more likely. Bonham’s sold a pair of Woodward side-locks last month for £10,000. They were bought in a gun shop a decade ago for £25,000 by a friend of mine.

In a dead or declining market it is brave man who dips in and spends money on things rapidly going out of fashion. However, I’m going to tell you why now might be the right time to do just that."

https://www.vintageguns.co.uk/magazine/shifting-sands

I humbly submit that Dig is a hell of an optimist.

England, much like France, is a country with a very old native population. Both countries have allowed rampant immigration from other countries that have no English or French heritage, have no interest in learning to speak the language of their new home, and no interest in laboring fifty years to support lavish social programs dreamed up by the oldsters who thought they were going to get them. They don’t have a heritage of hunting or shooting, save each other, and in the French example, won’t shoot or eat the wild pigs that are destroying the countryside. When I was traveling to France, buying guns to sell here was a pipe dream. A beat up Charlin that was worth $500, here, was still a $3000 gun in France. That, has changed, dramatically, both in England and France. I saw some shopper type ads from England for what appeared to be grandpas serviceable English made box lock for 100-200 dollars worth of British currency.

They weren’t selling. Same in France.

We, are the end of the line. Average age on this board has got to be 50+. When we are done buying, I suspect that will be the end of that.

Best,
Ted

I’ve been over here a month.
Visited many gun and sporting goods shops.

The use of non tox renders old guns useless.

Many investment grade guns are being sent to auction in the south.

Many auction estimates are in the toilet.

Boomers are done buying, the market is collapsing.

It doesn’t help that Brownings last 3 shooting lifetimes for most.
Shops are full of them.

Oh, and a country side typically loaded with stocked birds is as empty as the Sahara. (Bird flu, Brexit)

I’ve stayed in premium shooting hotels across Scotland, and they are mostly empty.

It’s pretty bleak up here.

I’m making a currency play, and am moving my shooting budget over here for the next few years.
The BP hasn’t been so weak since the last time we jacked up interest rates. Early 80’s.

I'm pretty sure the average age on this board has been 50+ since its formation. Yeah, the market changes but things are hardly dead. Business has been good for me. I sell more rifles than shotguns but both have been moving just fine and plenty of people are taking advantage of the low prices over seas. I'm not quite ready to bury my doubles just yet. Dig might be an optimist but Ted is clearly a pessimist. I'll just keep on keeping on.

Dig has to be an optimist, he’s a seller. Buy low, sell maybe….? He certainly made the market for English boxlocks 10+ years ago. So what I’m hearing is if you want to import a British gun wait six months and if the import fees don’t kill you you’ll get a deal.

English doublegons are works of art...the epitome of form and function in their class...simiar to winchester lever rifles and colt single action revolvers...so long as there are men who appreciate masculine art forms, then there will be demand for classic english shotguns...there is a limited supply with an ever increasing demand...as young men mature and learn what is really important...

which in the long run will provide moderate investment value...i hope...

Much as I hate to admit it, I bought my WR scalloped action boxlock (a 1960s vintage gun) about 10 years ago at a lot closer a retail price to the one "a few years ago" than the current market price. I guess it will fall to my children to dispose of, but they won't know and at that point I won't care.

Clearly, a realist. The guys who are on the board at age 50, now, are not the guys who were 50 at it’s inception. The renaissance to double guns, circa mid 1980s to 2000, driven by writers and magazines now gone, is clearly over. I didn’t imply that I was getting rid of my doubles, or that anyone else was, either. But, most of us are fairly well settled with what we have. The guys coming up behind us might shoot an O/U at some point, but, that is as close as most of them will get to a double. Nobody is lining up to import new doubles from Europe into the US.

If you want me to believe business is really good, tell me the part about the apprentice you are bringing up to do your work, importing, and buy your profitable business from you.

Best,
Ted

Obviously members here have aged, seems common everywhere. Yes, the peak in the double gun market has passed. Most of us may be pretty well settled in our current SxS's but plenty of people are still buying and not just doubles but a variety of vintage guns. I could never have predicted how much vintage British bolt guns have risen in value the last few years. A year or so ago I sold a British single shot for a client for over 35K, I do not know of another that has sold for more. The market shifts but interest in vintage guns is not dead.

The apprentice could not make the move to my new shop, too far of a commute for him. I'm too young to sell my business and generally one man craftsman operations are not in much demand on the market no matter the craft. Gunsmiths are certainly no exception in that regard. What I will tell you about importing is that it has been surprisingly strong and I hear the same from the auction houses and foreign dealers. Americans are buying plenty of guns, maybe not as many doubles as 10 years ago but they still are buying.

Someone is purchasing old guns, just look at the various auction results. The August RIA brought in over 23 million dollars.