doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com A Baker or Folsom or ????

Need a little assistance. I believe a Baker Batavia Damascus 16 Ga. followed me home today but there are a few things on it that are a bit confusing.

The gun is in good condition, it has 30" Damascus barrels in what appears to be 3 blade damascus in the star pattern. Chokes are extra full Right barrel being .030 and left .032. Bore in both barrels measures .658 using a Skeets bore gauge. One chamber appears to be 2 9/16" and the other closer to 2 5/8". Gun weighs 6 pounds, 14 Oz.

Now for the mystery that I need some help with.... Ser # is 250,xxx (without an F prefix or suffix),right lock is marked Batavia, N.Y. and the left lock is marked Batavia Damascus BUT the rib is marked BAKER GUN CO. which, it is my understanding, was used by Folsom after they purchased the company in about 1920.

According to what I can find the Batavia Damascus was built from about 1907 to 1912, that leaves a 7 year gap between when it was discontinued and Folsom bought them so I would think this would rule out an assembly from old parts... The forend, forend wood, action water table and trigger guard are all the same serial number.

The next item of curiosity is that the length of pull is 13 1/4". At first I thought it had been cut down as 13 3/4" is the shortest that baker was suppose to have put on the Batavia. But after looking at the factory buttplate which is a black plastic and appears to be correct based on the age and condition of the gun the border around the buttplate appears to be even on both sides with word BAKER well centered. So that leads me to believe that the buttstock was shortened when the gun left the factory...

So I am confused. Is it a Baker gun, Folsom gun or ????? The 250,xxx ser # sounded a bit high for a gun whose model was only made for about 5 years yet from what I found Folsom never made the Batavia Damascus.

I don't have a way to post pictures at this time, if someone wanted to send me their email address I could shoot some photos and email them to them for posting.

This is a nice gun, color case in the action has gone silver but the barrel colors and pattern are good. Bores have some minor pits, nothing that appears so deep as to hamper shooting the gun with light loads. Wood has flat top checkering and some figure, a few dings but nothing out of the ordinary for a 100+ year old hunting gun.

Would love to hear your thought...

Thanks in advance for your inpuot..
WBLDon

Great pictures, really helped

OK, OK, email me two pictures and I will post them

http://www.bakercollectors.com/

""Batavia Damascus 1907-1912 $25 to $28 sidelock with Damascus barrels""

""When Baker Gun & Forging sold their gun business to H.& D. Folsom in 1919, the guns were marked Baker Gun Co., a 20 gauge gun was offered, and the Batavia Leader was reintroduced as a steel barrel gun similar to the old Batavia Special. A bit of engraving was added to the Black Beauty and it was renamed the Black Beauty Special. Grades for the Folsom era Baker Guns were the Batavia Leader, Black Beauty Special, Paragon, Expert, and De Luxe. Folsom era catalogues listed the Black Beauty Special for $62 or $77 with ejectors, the Paragon Grade for $100 or $115 with ejectors, the Expert Grade for $215 and the De Luxe Grade for $385. In the fall of 1928, Folsom Baker magazine ads listed a 410 bore Batavia Leader, but it is unclear if any were actually manufactured. Folsom era Bakers usually have an F before or after the serial numbers 1- about 14,000. Most guns have a reinforcing wedge between the forearm loop and the flats.""

Mike

more reading especially the last post
https://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/viewtopic.php?t=289664

This sounds like the one with 121 pictures that ended just a few hours ago on Gun Broker. You must live nearby the seller? It may be easier to post the Gun Broker number or link to see the pictures. Nice find. I was going to bid but lost track of the day.

Nitro Express, that is a great idea thanks for the idea. Here is the link to the sellers pics...

https://www.gunbroker.com/item/779380172

I do live close and labored over whether I wanted to go look at the gun or not. But it looked so sad sitting on the rack with no other doubles to talk to, I had to take it home.

Skeettx, Thanks for the links. I looked at the Baker site earlier today, that's what generated my questions. Will have to look at the Shotgun World posts.

Again thanks for the input.
WBLDon

Note that when this gun was built .030"-.032" chokes would have likely been listed as Imp Mod. Full normally ran from 035"-040" or +. I can't recall ever having seen a catalog of this vintage which listed an Extra Full.

First I was ever aware of the term Extra Full was some Poly Chokes had that as a setting.

My 16 gauge Baker is marked "Baker Gun Co" on each lock plate & "Black Beauty Model" on the trigger plate. It does not say Special & does not have an F in the serial number. There is no indication to me that it was made by Folsom, nor would there seem to be any for your Damascus. I would come nearer suspecting the barrels to be Two-Blade Damascus than three at this grade level.

Even though the company name was Baker Gun & Forging Co. many of the guns were marked Baker Gun Co. My 1897 vintage Pigeon Gun is engraved Baker Gun Co. on both lock plates.

2-piper, Thanks for the info. I used a couple of slide in choke gauge I have and the full choke for the 16 ga. wouldn't enter the muzzles so I considered it an extra full choke. I do understand the choke is based on the bore diameter. I was basing the statement on it being 3 ribbon (English) damascus on the pattern as compared to those shown on the net..

Researcher, Thanks for the input. The more I find and hear I do think this is Baker gun and should be fun to shoot..

WBLDon

WBLDon,

The Batavia Damascus had its own Serial number subset starting at 250,000.
The Batavia Ejectors were all 230,000.
The Model C boxlocks are all 50,000 range.
Baker's can be confusing. Congrats on your purchase. I called about it last evening, a bit too late.

John

I have two Baker 12�s which were marketed as Montgomery Wards guns. Heavy waterfowl guns. Both choked way over Full. As I remember.050-.055 chokes with barrels about the same thickness. Heavy as heck. Stocks were a rats nest of a mess. While I don�t find as many Baker guns with splits and cracks as Smith doubles I do see more than a few. Bakers can slip under the radar often selling for far less than a comparable Smith.