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Originally Posted By: KY Jon
Are true nickel plated 8's that much harder than high quality magnum shot? And do they weigh less? Does it take more room to get a full 3/4 ounce in shell? You are starting a very interesting project I think.


My apologies, I didn't originally see your comment and question, but read back over the thread and realized I had not answered you.

I do think they are harder, and have more "lubricity" when passing through f.cones and chokes, but cannot quantify it. They must weigh less. They seem to take up more space to get the same payload weight in the same shell/wad/powder charge combination. I am beginning with unfired Cheddite 3" cases, and roll crimping them. I cannot actually get a full 3/4 oz. in it, but it's just a few pellets short.......... not much. If it shows promise on the plate I may look for a powder charge that takes up less space than the H110, but I doubt I will find one. I'm trying to keep the m.v. down between 1100 and 1150 fps.

I think I will go out to the shop this afternoon and count out 100 pellets of each, nickel plated and unplated, and weigh them. I'll report on my findings.

SRH


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Originally Posted By: Stan


I think I will go out to the shop this afternoon and count out 100 pellets of each, nickel plated and unplated, and weigh them. I'll report on my findings.

SRH


Stan, you should have given this task to Ed Good.

He would have got stuck on 10 after he ran out of fingers, and we'd never hear from him again.


A true sign of mental illness is any gun owner who would vote for an Anti-Gunner like Joe Biden.

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I went the long route. I counted three whole 3/4 oz. loads. Here's the scoop.

There are 310 nickel plated 8s in 3/4 oz. (328.2 gr., weighed). They mic .089". Do the math and this is 1.059 gr. per pellet. I'm getting an average of about 300-302 pellets in this new load.

There are 286 hard 8s in 3/4 oz. (328.4 gr., weighed). they weigh 1.148 gr. per pellet.

The nickel plated shot are definitely harder. Using the pliers test, with a tiny pliers, I could easily tell the difference.

Just a bit more info on the WW Super X 3/4 oz. load of 8 1/2s. It's a few pellets shy of a full 3/4 oz., at 323 gr., and there are 378 of the 8 1/2s in a load. This is the load I will be using exactly 7 days from now. We know how wonderful it patterns, and 8 1/2 shot should be good on a dove out to 30 plus yds.

Dave Carrie made the comment that you could shoot him in the butt with a 1/2 oz. load of 6s from a .410 and it might sting a little. Ha! If he only knew what it feels like to be hit with #8s at 40 yards he wouldn't have said that. 6s would be infinitely worse. I've been shot twice at close enough range to be bloodied, with 8s. Had to pick shot out of myself once. He doesn't have a clue.

SRH


Last edited by Stan; 08/25/18 04:37 PM.

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Years back took some 3"-ers apart. The RP's #7.5 pellets ranged from .093 to .0975, avg = #7.5s. Crude hardness test (OK, pliers) comparing with known (had it sent out) 4.5% antimony #8s suggests these #7.5s were harder.

Shot charge = 309 gr, about .706 oz (11/16 oz = .6875 oz = 301 gr).

Regarding #6 RPs, got an avg of 87 beautifully distributed #6 pellets within a 20" circle at 40 yds through a 0.016" M-42. That worked out to 56% in 20", and with 1250 fps MV. A phez could not make it through that 20" circle alive. Dave Carrie wouldn't like them well-centered on his butt.

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Full choke .410, 30 yards:



A pheasant or grouse would not have escaped.

Generic 3 load that was on sale for 9.99 at Wal Mart:



The Wife and Son were introduced to the pattern board with a lowly Mossberg 500 .410 pump. The wife, as it turns out, is a bloodthirsty little thing, expending 16 rounds out of the little gun, in cold blood, at the paper. Best $270 Ive spent in a while. They will be stepped up to the 20 gauge after firearms safety is over, and, hopefully, it cools down a bit. My Son shot it twice, and cheered on his mother after that.

Ill likely hunt the little guy a time or two, but, dont see it replacing the 20s, 16 or 12s anytime soon.

It is a hoot to play with. Expensive, to feed, however. I saved the emptys.

Casual observation, no gun calls out for tubes greater than the .410.
Best,
Ted

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Good observations about it not replacing the larger bores. No need for it to. They should not be in competition with one another, like I so often hear implied. The .410 has a niche, in which it does just as well as any other gauge/bore. Many want to try to make it into a long range gun, which it can never be. Long range for a .410 with lead shot is + or - 35 yards.

Comparing it to a 12 bore at 55 yards is like comparing a bow to a rifle at 200. Both are deadly inside their "sphere of influence", not so much outside it.

SRH


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It's niche was with women and chill'ern...

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Originally Posted By: HomelessjOe
It's niche was with women and chill'ern...


That's what I thought too jOe. But then I broke down on a dare and started shooting released quail with my Ithaca Lefever nitro special .410. I was surprised as how much fun and how effective it was...Geo

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If patterns had equal distribution the the range of various loads would be in proportion to the Sq Root of the loads. Thus if you double the shot load you do not get twice the range but about a 41% increase. This would mean that a 1 oz load would do at about 42 yards what oz would do at 30 yards.

In practice however, generally speaking the .410 will put that oz of shot in a pattern having more core thickening than the 1 oz from a larger bore so the range is extended to some extent but requires a more accurate hold.

Each person needs to truly evaluate their own personal abilities as to whether it is the gun for them. I admire the ability of one who has reached a plateau where they can truly use the small bores to their full usefulness.
I also admire those who realize their limitations & do everything within their power to ensure as clean kills as possible, even if it means carrying a 12 gauge with more open choke.

I Personally have not reached that plateau to where I "Need" a handicap, so I do not hunt with a .410.

Although I have not seen him shoot I do perceive that Stan has reached that plateau as have some others here. Everyone though needs to evaluate their own personal abilities & if you have not reached this level use more gun & don't apologize for it. Perhaps with time & practice you will reach that level, but some of us never will but that doesn't mean we should not enjoy what works well for us..


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2-piper you are quite right. Shoot what you want. Shoot it well and enjoy. The size of a mans gun does not increase the size of a man. But early season Dove are very straight forwards most times. A good shooter can take 15 birds with 20 or fewer shells if he uses just a bit of restraint. Most get too excited and shoot too soon or at birds out of their high percentage range. They think I need to shoot now instead of letting marginal birds past to get better shots later. Close, incomes with a open choked 12 bore are near a certain thing.

Now birds a few days later can be much more educated. Diving at any motion or gunfire nearby. One of the most fun ten minutes I had last year was trying to kill my last four birds on a limit while a thunderstorm hit. Winds were 30-40 with gust and birds were everywhere. Their flight path was ever changing with wind gust and those with a tail wind were almost impossible to shoot in front of. It took 17 shells to get four birds and the misses were by a mile not a inch.

National average is almost 7 shells per bird killed. Sales heaviest favor 12s but I dont see most small bore shooters using more shells per bird. I expect if they did theyd go back to their 12s. People dont like to miss a lot in front of other hunters or friends.

I favor late season birds. Fully feathered, big adult birds, with a good tail wind behind them and with weeks of being hunted behind them. For those, I leave the .410 home and take a long barreled Sterlingworth 12 bore. Few shots inside 30 yards but many fast moving, challenging birds at distance. Any bird taken is a fine bird as they are much more difficult to harvest. My shell rate starts to climb towards the average and Im not too proud to admit it.

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