doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Ithaca Pigeon gun not a grade2

Hello sirs. New to me Ithaca Lewis 4E. Live Bird/Pigeon gun? 30� bbls, straight grip, and no safety. Serial #112225. Were many of these produced with no safeties? Can anyone discern the Damascus pattern?










Thank you for your help.

Damascus pattern may be American Flag Bunting. Experts will say for sure.

I've always thought the Grade 4E Ithacas were among the most attractive...Geo

Parkers could be ordered with no safeties as well and for any reason. Seems logical in a live pigeon gun.
i was once related a tale from a late friend whose wife inherited a 20 gauge Parker from her Grandmother. Her Grandfather claimed He ordered it with no safety so that she would not become dependant on it and would be more likely to practice deliberate gun safety.

George has it, but Ithaca called it just "American Flag"

Bro. Walt's 4E Crass



1917 Flues

Just for interest, this is a Parker. Remington called the pattern "Washington N 3 B.P.". Within the scrolls are tiny rectangles; not crosses or stars



This Remington called "Etoile 3 B.P." and it has tiny stars within the scrolls, obviously similar but finer than "American Flag"



Steve Culver has the lopin figured out - stay tuned

Nice, old fashioned engraving on your gun. Pretty neat imho.

I have owned a few with no safety. One I remember had the safety slot filled but one could still see the old outline. Most likely live pigeon or trap. All the Ithaca single barrel trap guns (maybe a few exceptions) did not have a safety.
A very nice early gun. Congratulations!
I re-looked at your very nice photos and see were the slot ws also filled--and then engraved-all factory I am certain.

Sporting Life reported the gun and load used by competitors at all the GAH at Live Birds. The first Ithaca used was at the 1901 GAH, by H. Hughes of Easton, PA.
Unfortunately, guns and loads were not reported in detail thereafter.

If Bro. Walt or Cody has record of the gun's original purchaser I'll see if I can find him

Cody now has the records. They are in the process of scanning them as I post. They will soon be in the position to do a letter on your gun. Maybe contact them now as I gave them micro film of the records and, if you sweeten the request, they MAY respond. I would expect a name to be associated with the gun.
ps a 1904 gun probably engraved by Ed Laytham.

Ithaca doubles certainly were not popular among Pigeon shooters. They very rarely appear in the listings of guns used at the Grand American Handicap at live birds 1893 to 1902. The boys and girls at Fall Creek certainly remedied that at clay targets with their Knick SBT!!

Actually after Ithaca abandoned the double gun field this guy won the World Shoot at Madrid, Spain --





with an NID.


Doc. Drew -- the first picture you show calling them appears to actually be a set of Parker Bros. barrels