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Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 3,437 Likes: 34
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 3,437 Likes: 34 |
"IF" we were speaking of a single hit then a .22 short would be a far better killer than any of the above-mentioned loads, if legal & provided you were a good enough shot to place it where you wanted it. Well, it certainly would be, if you hit the target. That's why mobsters use .22 short intead of a single #8 for their hits. Seems like your contention is that the 28 has a longer "effective" range, rather than just a longer range, subject to centering the target in the pattern at that longer range.
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Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 11,345 Likes: 391
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 11,345 Likes: 391 |
This informative conversation makes me wonder if California mob hit men are now required to use lead free .22 shorts, in order to comply with the new laws. Larry and BrentD could probably tell us about some California Condors that have gotten lead poisoning from feeding on Mob hit victims who were shot with lead .22 shorts. It also makes me wonder why Replacement needs further clarification of what Miller clearly said.
A true sign of mental illness is any gun owner who would vote for an Anti-Gunner like Joe Biden.
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Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 2,268 Likes: 93
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 2,268 Likes: 93 |
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 11,383 Likes: 106
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 11,383 Likes: 106 |
Consistent killing range of a shotgun is not based on the penetration of a single pellet. It is rather based on a pattern sufficiently dense to ensure a lethal hit with pellets having adequate energy to penetrate. Therefore with the same number of pellets in the entire pattern, the one having a higher central concentration would have a slight range advantage with a "Center" hit. It would, of course, require a more accurate shot placement, with less room for error. Yes its based on physics, but there's more to it than just individual pellet energy. "IF" we were speaking of a single hit then a .22 short would be a far better killer than any of the above-mentioned loads, if legal & provided you were a good enough shot to place it where you wanted it. Interesting. Roster's steel shot lethality test on pheasants--using 1 oz 2's, 4's, or 6's, shooters didn't know which they were shooting--showed that 2's were the best choice, producing dead or immobile birds at ranges up to 50 yards at a rate of 76.9%, compared to 65.7% for 4's and 62% for 6's. My guess is that the 2's came out on top because the other 2 loads lacked sufficient penetration beyond 40 yards, while hits by just 1 or 2 2's would still result in a dead bird. (Pattern fails before penetration, as the old saying goes.) Maybe the most surprising part, however, was that based just on those birds shot inside 40 yards, the 2's still were superior: 86.5% to 73% for 4's; 75% for 6's. Makes me wonder whether there was either more "shooter error" with the 4's than the other shot sizes. That or else the 4's didn't pattern as well as the 6's and 2's. Miller, I don't know whether you've seen this study. But unlike the Thomas recoil stuff, this one goes into great detail on how the study was conducted. I have it hard copy with no internet link, but I'm pretty sure it's on line somewhere.
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Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 12,743
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 12,743 |
I also recall, but don't have a link to it either, where a study was done by Winchester at Nilo Farms on ducks. Their study showed that to reliably & consistently kill ducks @ 40 yds as I recall, required 6 hits with #6 shot, 5 hits with #5 or 4 hits with #4. This was done just prior to the lead ban & was with lead shot.
A one-shot kill with any reasonable size of shot apt to be shot at game requires more luck than skill, as that one shot has to hit a vital area. There is simply no way to aim any individual pellet in a shotgun pattern. When the pattern is so thin that one is depending on 1-shot kills a passel of birds are going to fly off "Packing Lead", or steel, as the case may be to die later.
Miller/TN
I Didn't Say Everything I Said, Yogi Berra
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 9,429 Likes: 315
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2006
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 11,383 Likes: 106
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 11,383 Likes: 106 |
Roster did get a little lost in his analysis of late season loads for pheasants, but his steel shot test is interesting stuff. The part I like to stress: Inside 30 yards, no matter what they were shooting, there were almost no lost cripples: Wounding loss rate of less than 3%. That's one reason why, if you're hunting preserve pheasants where the shots are likely to be consistently pretty close, you can do quite well with a 28ga and 3/4 oz loads. I reloaded with 3/4 ounce 7's when I had a writing assignment that was going to allow me to shoot a bunch of preserve roosters. Worked out very well. Didn't lose any birds I put on the ground. Flat missed the first one I shot at, but after that, we were good to go. Did need dog support on a couple that hit the ground running.
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Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 71
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 71 |
Guys I'm really impressed with the analysis, but having become a 28 gauge aficionado, I'm quite comfortable with "Magic".
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