May
S M T W T F S
1 2 3 4
5 6 7 8 9 10 11
12 13 14 15 16 17 18
19 20 21 22 23 24 25
26 27 28 29 30 31
Who's Online Now
2 members (Ted Schefelbein, 1 invisible), 756 guests, and 6 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Statistics
Forums10
Topics38,501
Posts545,497
Members14,414
Most Online1,344
Apr 29th, 2024
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 2 of 2 1 2
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 9,757
Likes: 748
Sidelock
**
Online Content
Sidelock
**

Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 9,757
Likes: 748
I doubt you were going to get a whole lot of custom chamber cutting on a Nitro, or, a Western Arms gun, back in the day.


I use my 16 NS when I have to use non-toxic loads. A gent was selling some of the older Heavi-Metal 16 gauge loads, that, apparently were disappointing for use on waterfowl. I will say the hulls are cheap, but, the grouse go down just fine with them:



The area this picture was taken at is under Federal managment, which, really means it is either not managed, or buffoons manage it. Their vision for the area changes every decade or so. Of course, waterfowl hunting is prohibited, and everything else is non-toxic.

1937 vintage, this one was always 2 3/4":



On a lark I bid $257 for this gun, that had furry surface rust on the barrels. A guy here re-blued them, wanting to polish them to 600 (Ixnay) coat them with varnish (Nada) and make them an example of higher grade work then they really are. Polished to 320, rust blued, and looking "right" on this gun. For reasons I can only speculate on, the rest of the gun, looked like it had just come out of the box. The gun came from Maine, and somebody must have thought they bought their perfect grouse and woodcock gun in 1938, or so, and then never went hunting.

Nice weight and balance:



By 1937, the stocks with 3" of drop were gone. Hope your Nitros bring you lots of fun out in the field. I used to own a Western Arms 12, that was in even better condition, but, some depression era soul had specified, in 1931, a single trigger, that cost $5.00.

Never took to that gun.


Best,
Ted

Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 13
Boxlock
OP Offline
Boxlock

Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 13
I was surprised at just how much heavier the 12ga was compared to the 16ga. The 12 feels like a club compared to the 16 and the 20 feels like your waving a fly rod around. Thanks so much for all the info

Joined: Jul 2017
Posts: 32
Sidelock
Offline
Sidelock

Joined: Jul 2017
Posts: 32
I believe the 20 gauge NS originally came with short chambers. I have #163xxx (1924) and #191xxx (1925) and both had 2 1/2" chambers. I had one of them lengthened to 2 3/4" and the other I left unchanged. I don't know when Ithaca made 2 3/4" chambers standard on the 20 gauge guns, but I have seen some later guns with longer chambers.

I also have a 16 gauge NS (#288xxx) made in 1929 that has 2 9/16" chambers. I believe Researcher is correct that the longer chambers on the 16s became standard in 1934.

Last edited by Jack71; 02/03/19 05:04 PM.
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 5,892
Likes: 109
Sidelock
***
Offline
Sidelock
***

Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 5,892
Likes: 109
Quote:
I believe the 20 gauge NS originally came with short chambers. I have #163xxx (1924) and #191xxx (1925) and both had 2 1/2" chambers.


Thanks for the information. I've never had a chance to run a chamber gauge in an early 20-gauge Nitro Special.

I have never seen any information to indicate Ithaca Gun Co. ever held chambers 1/8 inch shorter than the intended cartridge like A.H. Fox Gun Co. and Parker Bros. did.

Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 12,743
Sidelock
***
Offline
Sidelock
***

Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 12,743
Quote:
I doubt you were going to get a whole lot of custom chamber cutting on a Nitro, or, a Western Arms gun, back in the day.


Agreed Ted;
I was a bit indistinct on my post on those custom chambers. I believe those were for the most part over by WWI. What few may have been done later would not have been on a gun at the price-point level of a Nitro Special.

Was just pointing out that in the very early years shotgun chambers were not limited to what we tend to recognize as standards only. These early "Standards were 2˝" for 28 & 20 gauge, 2 9/16" for 16 & 14 gauge, 2 5/8" & 2 3/4" for 12 gauge & 2 5/8" & 27/8" for 10 gauge. Longer lengths, Hi-Velocity & eventually Magnum loadings would all come later.

Researcher has already mentioned the dates for some of these.


Miller/TN
I Didn't Say Everything I Said, Yogi Berra
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 9,757
Likes: 748
Sidelock
**
Online Content
Sidelock
**

Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 9,757
Likes: 748
Back in the earlier years of The Double Gun Journal, there was an article on the restoration of a Greener “Empire” grade gun, with a photo of the mid 90s year old guy who had accidentally blown the gun up, and lost a few digits out of the deal.
I seem to remember they loaded black and smokeless hulls in a variety of lengths, and I think the article makes mention of the fact they considered store bought loads, “inferior” to their home rolled loads. They were rural Canadians, if I remember correctly.
I’ll have to see if I can find it. Pretty sure the gun was sleeved. I don’t remember what the chamber length on the gun was, but, it seems to me they did not seem overly concerned about what they fed it.

Best,
Ted

Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 9,740
Likes: 97
Sidelock
*
Offline
Sidelock
*

Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 9,740
Likes: 97
re chamber lengths, by the thirties, 2 3/4" had become standard spec for most american made doubleguns...

chambers on many older guns have been lengthen, with some over lengthen...one never knows for sure, without measurement with a proper gauge...have used a galazan gauge for many years...

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/100706...-410-bore-brass




Last edited by ed good; 02/04/19 01:43 AM.

keep it simple and keep it safe...
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 5,892
Likes: 109
Sidelock
***
Offline
Sidelock
***

Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 5,892
Likes: 109
The SAAMI meeting where it was "suggested" that manufacturers start marking the chamber length on their shotguns was in 1937. In their 1938 Fox catalog, Savage began stating "Chambered for 2 3/4 inch shells in the text for each grade. Some 1938 vintage guns, and all 1939 and later have this roll-stamped on the barrels --



Similar markings appear on earlier A.H. Fox guns that were back to Savage for repairs.

Same thing on my Remington pumps and autoloaders. Up into 1938 they are just marked with the gauge --



I don't have a 1939 or 1940 Remington but from 1941 on the markings include the chamber length --



Ithaca seems to have been very hit or miss on marking chamber lengths. I have seven NIDs and only the 1935 vintage No. 1 28-gauge is stamped 2 7/8 CHAMBER --



The latest NID I have is a 1940 vintage 16-gauge No. 4E and it is not marked as to chamber length.


Ted, Your gun must be right near the end of the early-style Nitro Special frames --



during 1937 vintage serial numbers we begin seeing the use of the A-Grade style frames for Nitro Specials --




Last edited by Researcher; 02/04/19 11:50 AM.
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 9,740
Likes: 97
Sidelock
*
Offline
Sidelock
*

Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 9,740
Likes: 97
the a grade style frame is very appealing...


keep it simple and keep it safe...
Page 2 of 2 1 2

Link Copied to Clipboard

doublegunshop.com home | Welcome | Sponsors & Advertisers | DoubleGun Rack | Doublegun Book Rack

Order or request info | Other Useful Information

Updated every minute of everyday!


Copyright (c) 1993 - 2024 doublegunshop.com. All rights reserved. doublegunshop.com - Bloomfield, NY 14469. USA These materials are provided by doublegunshop.com as a service to its customers and may be used for informational purposes only. doublegunshop.com assumes no responsibility for errors or omissions in these materials. THESE MATERIALS ARE PROVIDED "AS IS" WITHOUT WARRANTY OF ANY KIND, EITHER EXPRESS OR IMPLIED, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, THE IMPLIED WARRANTIES OF MERCHANT-ABILITY, FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE, OR NON-INFRINGEMENT. doublegunshop.com further does not warrant the accuracy or completeness of the information, text, graphics, links or other items contained within these materials. doublegunshop.com shall not be liable for any special, indirect, incidental, or consequential damages, including without limitation, lost revenues or lost profits, which may result from the use of these materials. doublegunshop.com may make changes to these materials, or to the products described therein, at any time without notice. doublegunshop.com makes no commitment to update the information contained herein. This is a public un-moderated forum participate at your own risk.

Note: The posting of Copyrighted material on this forum is prohibited without prior written consent of the Copyright holder. For specifics on Copyright Law and restrictions refer to: http://www.copyright.gov/laws/ - doublegunshop.com will not monitor nor will they be held liable for copyright violations presented on the BBS which is an open and un-moderated public forum.

Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5
(Release build 20201027)
Responsive Width:

PHP: 7.0.33-0+deb9u11+hw1 Page Time: 0.059s Queries: 34 (0.037s) Memory: 0.8394 MB (Peak: 1.8989 MB) Data Comp: Off Server Time: 2024-05-05 04:37:18 UTC
Valid HTML 5 and Valid CSS