doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Choke tubes in Vintage British Guns

Before you are two British guns of similar dimensions and condition.

Let's say you're looking at two Purdeys...one in original condition and the second with Briley or Teague choke tubes added quite recently.

Given their similarities, is there a difference in value?

Put another way, what penalty does the market place on the altered (tubed) gun? Negative 15 percent...or 20 percent? Or no penalty at all?

Second question:

Does the market distinguish between Briley and Teague (the gun carrying them presumably would have been sent back to the proof house...and the Briley probably not)?

Please, no lectures about the utility of choke tubes...I already agree with you!

This is simply a question about market values.

What do you think?

generally, any non factory alteration to a fine gun reduces its collector value...

and in some cultures, the act of machining purdy barrels for choke tubes could get one racked, and then drawn and quartered, with burning of the remains, in an effort to drive away the evil demon that possessed one to perform such an unholy deed...

I believe after market installation choke tubes reduces the value of the Purdey, even though they actually increase its utility.

I have a 16 Purdey whose barrels were cut and rendered chokeless, installing Briley tubes and some work with microcell pads to rebalance it as it was on its original production entry make it a very usable gun. That said it is still a cut barrel Purdey worth much less than it would have been in the same condition with unmolested. Probably 5 to 10 k less.

A not cut, but tubed gun maybe 5k less, but Rockerman is a better source than I.

Screw in choke tubes, on a classic double, stress classic double, eliminate it as being a classic double for a vast majority of potential buyers. Not kidding when I expect that group to be in the 80-90% size. You have removed the classic charm of the side by side and made it into a practical gun many will not be interested in buying. You might still get full value out of the gun but it also might take even longer for a purist to decide to buy it. If ever.

Hard black chrome is a much more durable finish than slow rust bluing but if you put that on a classic double or a nickle finish on a receiver you will struggle to sell it to anyone but a shooter seeing it as more low maintenance. Same thing with screw in choke tubes.

Value ........... decreased. Practicality and usefulness ............... increased. Desirability .............. that one's a toss up. I bought a Philly Fox 32" barreled BE grade 12 ga. several years ago. It had been restocked in nice, figured walnut, and had been screw choked with Briley S1 series thin walls. The price reflected that. It's one of my most useful vintage S x S guns.

It's all according to what you want, all original.............. or not.

SRH

Same applies to more plebeian guns, like my first Model 42 that came to me with Colonials. Great shooter, diminished value, but I love it.

STan,
If the price reflected the Briley's, how much was that price difference? 20%?

BrentD, What is the difference between a rare collectable gun and a nice shooter? It is subjective, that is until it comes time to sell it. Then a dealer will tell you the value is ruined while some, a few shooters might see extra versatility in it. But it never increases the value.

The market is not always sensible, it is subjective, 20% reduction may be valid, at the end of the day only a sale determines what the value is for that moment

This thread is on track. I'll try to add a bit of quantative insight. First off, sort gun owners into four groups: Shooter - interested in utility only, Shooter-Collector - values utility (U) above pride of ownership (POO), Colector-Shooter - values POO above U, and Collector who values POO only.

As most of you know, I base market value on Brand Value, Original Quality, and Current Condition. BV is the primary driver of POO. OQ and CC are the drivers for U. There are 5 levels of BV and 9 levels each for OQ and CC. That is 405 pigeon holes of value.


So, let us consider a Boss/H&H/Purdey/Woodward (BHPW), these being the BV1 maker's names. The gun will likely be a OQ1, best work. In CC1 condition (the best 1 or 2 individuals of a sample of 100) we are looking at around $40,000. I would be surprised if a choke tubed individual BV1-OQ1-CC? would hammer at auction for more than $20-25K (maybe less). BV1-OQ1-CC3 = $20,915.

Next case: same gun except in CC4 condition (Heavy use, but no abuse); BV1-OQ1-CC4 = $15,918. With tubes, likely BV1-OQ1-CC5 = $12,041.

Note that BV and OQ levels are fixed. CC changes (goes down) over the gun's life. Higher CC draws increased collector interest (big bucks) and lower CC reduces value and draws increased C-S and S-C interest (utility bucks).

Choke tubed vintage SXS guns are rare enough that I don't have a statistically significant population --- yet.

Questions?

DDA