doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Lumps and more lumps.

While reading a recent post on here where there was a mention of "Through lumps" it got me thinking.
There's chopper lumps, dovetail, clip and entablature to name a few, but W.H.Monk took out a patent on a monoblock set up back in 1881, it looked very much like the machined original portion of the breech end from when barrels are being sleeved, the tubes were fitted in the same way as sleeving (this may well have had some influence on the sleeving process when it became common years later ?)
What I can't find out is if Monk's lumps and chamber part of the barrels were one piece or not. If it was, which I assume, I'd guess there was a fair bit of work involved in making them back then so would you say it was a time consuming method - possibly expensive , or was he ahead of his time with his idea ?
It seems that a lot of modern O/U gun's barrel sets are constructed this way and while it's easier and cheaper to machine these particular parts nowadays, could W.H. Monk have planted the seed for the process ?

Interesting Nick. Henri Pieper's patent was also 1881





The tubes were inserted into the tapered hole through the breech piece from the rear



The Modified Diana tubes were threaded about 1/2 way into the breech piece (mono-bloc) from the front

Using milling machines it is easy to machine a monobloc, the lump being cut via crop milling and later chased out by hand to form the bites.

Whoever first patented the monobloc, it is the Continental makers who employed it from the start and later refined it. The British resorted to sleeving in the 1950s and although sleeving looks like a monobloc it is not. The breech part that remains in sleeving is a composite part, depending on which barrrel method was used, not a unitary piece of steel.

Thanks for the replies, do you think there was some skullduggery going on with those two patents in 1881 ?
If Monk's was truly a monobloc , would you think it was more of an action filers job to make the piece before the barrel maker fitted the tubes and ribs etc.
Maybe it was one of those many patents which seemed like a good idea at the time but didn't catch on until faster, more modern machinery appeared ? I'd imagine the tubes could end up pointing in all directions unless the bloc was precisely made, I reckon that could take time and some skilled hands.

Manufrance used a similar process with their Robust doubles. They called it "canons frettes". A lot of the Robusts have a very visible "step" where the barrels join the monoblock.

I don't know about Monk's guns, but Pieper made his guns by the Piles. IOnhis original 1881 patent the tubes were inserted into the one piece steel breech piece from the Rear & thus had the step at the end of the breech piece. These guns are generally marked Original Diana. As Drew stated later guns marked Modified Diana had the tube threaded in from the front & only extended about halfway through the breech piece.

Although I do not believe Pieper ever used the term Monoblock both versions were of that description. I am not sure just who Coined the term Mono-Block, but highly suspect it was Berretta.

I have an old Pieper hammer gun in a rather poor condition marked Modified Diana with the tubes installed from the front. these guns do not have the step. Mine has twist barrels with the steel Breech Piece.

Through lumps general meant that the lumps came through the action and the bottoms could be seen when the gun was closed as in many hammer guns.

Problems arise with descriptions when people hijack a name for something else or it has been wrongly used .

Through lump was described in one book, the Eley Game Book if I recall right, as a lump that goes through the barrels and forms the rib on the high end. The barrels are brazed to either side of it. The illustrations showed this lump along with the chopper, dovetail, entablature and maybe some others.

[quote=Shotgunlover]Through lump was described in one book, the Eley Game Book if I recall right, as a lump that goes through the barrels and forms the rib on the high end. The barrels are brazed to either side of it. The illustrations showed this lump along with the chopper, dovetail, entablature and maybe some others.

Have heard this also called a "clip" lump and was used for a while by Cogswell and Harrison

Question; What is this "Entablature lump. I am familiar with all the other ones named plus the shoe, conventional & dovetail chopper lumps. Also, the Mono-Block which started this thread.