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Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 122
Sidelock
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Sidelock

Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 122
We have Turkey Vultures and Caracaras here The leading cause of premature death is automobiles. Every year in Texas, on the first weekend of November, there is likely enough gut piles and lost deer and hog carcasses to wipe out the entire population of carrion eaters. But, there they are year after year, populations increasing.

Some folks get on the anti lead wagon and it's just too hard to let it go as Junk Science. They just have to have something to be against and lead is as good a target as any.

Anyway, like I said earlier, most rifle shots pass through and there is little or not lead in the gut piles. People do not intentionally shoot animals in the guts. In fact they try very hard not to do so.

Alan

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Sidelock
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If its anything like here, most of the eagles in the past that died from lead poisoning was by direct injection.

O.M

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LGF Offline
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To a scientist, junk science is badly done research, usually with the aim of supporting a social, political, financial, or religious agenda. The classic junk science was the 'data' showing that vaccination causes autism, or that smoking does not cause cancer. A lot of social 'science' is junk because the methods are designed to support a (usually left-leaning) political agenda.

To the public, junk science is an accusation hurled at solid scientific research which suggests that we should change old habits for the good of other people or the environment. Rush Limbaugh is not the most qualified judge of scientific merit or integrity. The science behind birds and ingested lead has been solid for 50 years. Calling it junk because there are still vultures in the sky is just saying that you want to continue using lead because you don't like the alternatives.

I don't like them either, but I do like condors and am willing to use copper bullets to help them recover from the brink of extinction. I must be a junk scientist.

Joined: Jan 2006
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Sidelock
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They can't explain because their entire theory is bull chit.

Seems they easily fool fools.

Does eagle taste like chicken Teddy'bOy?

Joined: Feb 2019
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Sidelock
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Sidelock

Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 122
Just because some junk science has been repeated for 50 years does not make it credible.

The use of steel shot did not save the ducks. Ducks Unlimited buying up wetlands and breeding grounds saved the ducks.

And no, changing old habits that work for the sake some feel good idealism is not a good thing, nor is it a good precedent to set for posterity.


Alan

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Sidelock
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What if someone's walking along and finds a bunch of dead eagles. Is there any standard of care for the carcasses to preserve the harvested samples, transport, storage, testing? What if the someone forgets to mention that they were found at the base of a windmill? What if the best way to get dramatic pictures is to make a quick stop at a row of turbines before the power company clean up crew makes their rounds?

Joined: Apr 2012
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Sidelock
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Sidelock

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Posts: 180
LGF

I notice from your address line that you live in Kenya.
As an old expat, having lived in Kenya in the 1970's, let me give you an answer with some of my thoughts:

I agree with your first sentence in its entirety. But then you went fully offline.
I take it from your first remark that you are scientist?
Well, I am not a scientist, but let me give you a personal statistic

I am 73 years of age and have smoked since the age of 14 - 40 cigs a day by the age of 18, 100 a day for most of my life - about 50-60 a day nowadays.
None of my children, ex-wifes (although that is a different story & would mostly have been agreeable) - dogs or anyone I have ever been in contact with has died an early death because of my - or anyone elses - smoking.
My parents (and all of my family - as well as everyone we knew) smoked all of their lives - I'm sure my mother smoked in the Hospital when I was born! - and both died at the ripe old age of 81.

I have also during most of my life lived 'dangerously' (as some would call it now) - apart from smoking (which was always a 'normal' activity)- hunting dangerous animals in Afrika on foot, sailing single handed halfway around the world & a few other such endeavours.

I am a great believer in people making their own life (only do it! - don't look to other people to do it for you!)

Also, I do not remember people in the 60's/70's , when everybody smoked everywhere, that people fell over dead in the, then, very smoky nightclubs, pubs or restaurants that I frequented.

The same goes for 'lead' in my opinion - rather look at the chemical & other industries for that.

These industries produce so much 'poisenous' byproducts (because so many people need so much of their products) - if there were 50% of the existing population, half or less of that would be needed and less damage would be done.

So much for 'science having been solid for 50 years' - relating to smoking, 'lead' or otherwise.

As I said before - the only 'solid' science is that there are too many people on this planet & any and every problem we have stems from that fact!

In case you want to check on my credentials, I give my full name here

Gunter H. Maskort
(Kenya Centre Fire Pistol Champion (ISU) 1975)
Kenya Regiment Rifle Club 1975
Kenya Rifle Association 1975 (Brian 'Hawkeye' Hawkins)
Bamburi Rifle Club Mombasa 1974 (Founder Member)
British Pistol Club Life 1974
Nat'l Pistol Assn of Great Britain 1979 (Founder Member)
NRA (USA) Life 1974


Edit: LGF - re-reading your post I am not sure whether I read you correctly? I'm afraid your writing is a bit confusing!
Are you now for or against junk science? I am confused...


Edit again - after rereading your post again very carefully I can only conclude that this is the ususal obfuscation of pseudo-scientists! - make it look so that either side can use it for their arguments (unless one reads very carefully!)


Last edited by Gunter; 04/19/19 01:57 PM.
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Sidelock
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Joined: Nov 2008
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Forever the cynic, I say lead bullet bans are primarily just another attempt to obstruct hunting through never-ending hyper regulations.

Accepting eagles and certain birds are extremely vulnerable to lead poisoning doesnt mean a blanket lead ban is warranted. Nobody wants birds to die or to poison their friends and families. Determining best practices for field dressing and butchering would probably solve most of the problems. Maybe limited bans are warranted in specific locations at specific times. Let the State wildlife agencies manage it like everything else. Your antagonists at the Federal level will ban lead in areas that dont even hold bald eagles or condors.

Joined: Oct 2010
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dal Offline
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Joined: Oct 2010
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"I am 73 years of age and have smoked since the age of 14 - 40 cigs a day by the age of 18, 100 a day for most of my life - about 50-60 a day nowadays.
None of my children, ex-wifes (although that is a different story & would mostly have been agreeable) - dogs or anyone I have ever been in contact with has died an early death because of my - or anyone elses - smoking.
My parents (and all of my family - as well as everyone we knew) smoked all of their lives - I'm sure my mother smoked in the Hospital when I was born! - and both died at the ripe old age of 81.

I have also during most of my life lived 'dangerously' (as some would call it now) - apart from smoking (which was always a 'normal' activity)- hunting dangerous animals in Afrika on foot, sailing single handed halfway around the world & a few other such endeavours.

I am a great believer in people making their own life (only do it! - don't look to other people to do it for you!)

Also, I do not remember people in the 60's/70's , when everybody smoked everywhere, that people fell over dead in the, then, very smoky nightclubs, pubs or restaurants that I frequented.

The same goes for 'lead' in my opinion - rather look at the chemical & other industries for that."



Well....sounds like your anecdotal evidence is very convincing...to bad the tobacco industry lawyers didn't have you as a witness decades ago. You would have saved them billions....lol


Last edited by dal; 04/19/19 07:24 PM.

Life is too short to have a 'hate on' for so many things or people. Isn't it?
Joined: Feb 2008
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Sidelock
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Joined: Feb 2008
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Originally Posted By: BrentD


I watch them kill ducks during the winter on almost a daily basis where small flocks are insisting on staying in a small hole they keep ice-free all winter.


Does anyone here actually believe this bullshit from the long-time anti-lead ammunition advocate BrentD??? Pretty hard to watch eagles killing ducks on a daily basis when you are also working at Iowa State and spending a great deal of time here on Doublegunshop being an expert on most everything. I call BULLSHIT on this statement. However, when you lack credibility, anything is worth a shot.



But just when you think the anti-lead bullshit can't get any deeper, another environmentalist wacko says this:

Originally Posted By: LGF

Further, lead vapor travels well beyond the wound channel in a game animal, and well into the meat we eat. As a Californian affected by all our absurd new gun laws, I hate to abandon all my older rifle ammo, but in this case I think it is the right thing to do, for the people who eat my venison, and for the condors and eagles which may eat the gut pile.


Hahaha... Wow folks, you saw it here first! Lead vapors from bullets going into meat! That's a new one that even the discredited wacko Ben Deeble would be proud of! It wasn't enough for anti-lead activists to claim that hundreds of lead fragments were laced throughout large numbers of deer and gut piles, going far beyond the wound channel. Now we have this "expert" proclaiming that lead bullets actually VAPORIZE well beyond wound channels to contaminate our venison.

Larry, BrentD, and LGF... Different circus... Same clowns! Some things never change. I'd suggest that newer members and readers delve into several past anti-lead diatribes from these three.





A true sign of mental illness is any gun owner who would vote for an Anti-Gunner like Joe Biden.

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