doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Parkers are they truely...............?

I think CB and 2-piper make good points. There isn't anything mystical about them, but they have a mystique that comes from their well-deserved reputation. For my part, I think they're prettier than other American guns. The Fox is a much simpler design, but I had a hammer break in one. That hasn't happened with a Parker, not that I shoot nearly enough to generalize.

A reasonable index of the turn-of-the-century top shotguns, would be what guns were the "Top Guns" using?
Prior to 1895 clearly British - mostly Greener and Scott
After Fred Gilbert won the First DuPont Grand Smokeless Championship Handicap Live-bird Tournament October 1895 with a Smith, the Smith was most popular.
Guns used
https://digital.la84.org/digital/collection/p17103coll17/id/53099

About 1899 (Gilbert switched to Parker that year) Parker took over (with increasing popularity of Winchester 1897 also).

25s at 1901 GAH at Live Birds and the guns used
https://digital.la84.org/digital/collection/p17103coll2/id/42076



Smith went 1-2-3 at the 1902 GAH at Live Birds (Last)
https://digital.la84.org/digital/collection/p17103coll17/id/41019


Lots more here
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1D8QkBDo-KIQYk2G8lkE-kHLUybB5NJzBahX_eFKEyuY/preview

I'm Rick by the way, I totally get where you are coming from, not comparing Purdey, Boss in the same quality i.e. side by side as in next to each other, but looking at it regionally, you have American makers that run the gambit and then you have English,and so forth and within their regions they are tiered by quality, fit and finish. So the Q wasn't saying the Parker was on Par with Purdey, but giving a curve to American makers "would Parker have been the Purdey of America"? I hope that makes sense?

Rick;
Yes, that makes total sense & was actually the way I was looking at it & my attempt to give an answer based on that. That still leaves me with the same answer. I personally believe that as far as Fit & Finish of all parts goes the Parker was at the top of the line in American made doubles.

That said with all things considered, especially from a design standpoint, I will still put the Lefever as the most desirable, "To Me", double of American make.

C'back;
I also have a JP Sauer & Son sidelock. It was made for sale on the US market through VL&D as their Knock-About at that point, Ca 1901/02. The sears on this gun sit vertically in the lockplate & engage the hammers on their outer periphery, a Design I believe to be extremely good. It does not have intercepting sears, but personally, I believe the design is such it truly does not need them.

I am sure similar statements could be made concerning Englis "Best" guns. Obviously, some preferred a Boss or H&H to a Purdey.

I've never quite understood the Parker mystique. There are lots of ways to evaluate "best" and most of them are subjective and personal. Because I am not a big fan of them, I also do not know a lot about them from personal experience, so how would a Parker rate at



1. Handling = most important to me, I give Lefever the edge and Parker a distant 4th, well behind Smith and Fox as well.

2. Looks = Same as above. They maybe be well fit and finished but the actions look clunky to me.

3. Reliability = I don't know, but probably higher than Lefever I'm guessing

4. Strength = Again hard to judge but perhaps this is their forte. I have never see this evaluated objectively.

5. Value = For the dollar, Parker seems pretty pricey in comparison to the other 3.

I don't want to denigrate a Parker as I am sure they are very fine guns, but relative to some of the others, I do not see them as special in anyway other than some people just seem to like them a lot more for unlisted reasons.

I think the greatest advantage of Parker was the availability of so many different frame sizes and stock fittings.

You can only compare an English "bests" to an American "best". Any other comparison is only foolish.

David Trevalian once told me that he considered the 1883 Colt the best made American shotgun. I've owned several and cannot disagree.

Pete, so what do you like about the Colt? What makes it the best?

I anticipated my exclamation mark would indicate Parker as the Purdey of America---not overall (although I lean to agnostic comparing the popularity, practicality and durability of the two).

Parker design is overly complex. I prefer a clean simple design but as 2-piper notes the internal finish level may have been required because of the design. It is not a superior design, not a Best gun in the British sense at all. It is what it is. A solid reliable gun capable of giving decades of service. But for that matter there are several others as well. I like Fox and Lefever, my son likes Remington 1894�s and a small bore Smith I gave him.

Internal finish was always done only to the level required for function in America. Extra labor, to go past that point, was just loss profit and profit margins were always thin on guns due to cheap imports and the invention of simpler repeaters. Repeaters never took over the market in Great Britain like they did here. Remington got out of the double market early to make repeaters, then Winchester followed. Ithaca remained in both markets the longest. And I have not forgotten the Model 21. It was the personal pet project of the person who ran Winchester and I bet sales of repeaters made it possible from a money standpoint.

Truth be told there are no real American best guns except for a handful of the highest custom made high grade guns. Call it 1/2 of 1% to be generous. Where Boss, H&H and their equivalents were almost all Best or near best quality.

Huumm- "best Guns" hey-- OK, why did Limey gun scribe Gough Thomas rate the Model 12 Winchester so highly=in function and in appearance as well-= ditto Steve Bodio-- Winchester was never "in the double gun market" in their early years- when they offered the ugly lever actioned shotguns in 10 and 12 bore-- They imported the doubles they then sold here in America..

Both the Browning Superposed and the Winchester M21 were developed in answer to the thought of reducing shotgun magazine capacity in re: waterfowling and excessive bag limits-- John Olin liked the M21- and he was the main reason WRA kept it in production after Olin bought the Co. in the 1930's--

Are Parkers the best of the American made boxlock doubles? Hard to answer, but I'm more of a mind like the late Michael McIntosh-- I vote for the A.H. Fox-- RWTF