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#545497 05/08/19 12:51 PM
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For some reason I cannot add on to that post so started a new one.

I was sent an message saying that the 16 ga. Herters hull was not cut open, that is the way it was picked up on the course. Adds a new light on the subject.
http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL1373/6511424/24513874/414205901.jpg


David


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Looking at that hull, I would agree with those who suggested (in the now locked thread) that the case mouth did not open properly. That could be the result of some sort of obstruction. Stuck base wad from the previous round fired?

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What is abnormal about it? Other that being ripped from stern to stem, it looks normal enough to me on that end.

How the brass sheared so neatly in half is the odd part in my opinion.


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[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]
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I see nothing in that picture that suggests the case mouth did not open properly. What I see is a curling in, on the two corners adjacent to the tear, where the piece of the hull is missing. That shearing could very well cause the curling.

Not that it means much either way. We'll likely never know the cause, but I can easily see how, if the chamber wall gave way first, the shell casing would be ripped in this way.

SRH


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I am still going to shoot my Smith, and it does not have any cracks in the stock.

Seen some badly crashed cars just like mine. Think someone got killed. Be driving it for three hours straight next monday, 300 kilometers. Risky hey ?

O.

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Quote:
Seen some badly crashed cars just like mine. Think someone got killed. Be driving it for three hours straight next monday, 300 kilometers. Risky hey ?


Far, Far riskier than enjoying that Smith. Been a while since I have seen actual statistics but I recall "Accidental" firearms injuries or deaths are at an all-time low. Even if you were Shot while engaged in some shooting sports the odds would still be it would be at the hands of another.

Not saying, of course, one should not exercise care in what they feed a shotgun, but with reasonable care, that type of injury is at the bottom of the totem pole.


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Of course we're still all speculating. However, it's interesting to compare the photo of that hull to a couple hulls we know to have blown due only to what was IN the hull, not any possible obstruction. I refer those who may have a copy of the magazine to Double Gun Journal, Winter 1999, and the destruction test involving author Sherman Bell (Finding Out For Myself, Part II), with technical assistance from ballistician Tom Armbrust and doublegun smith Dennis Potter. The hulls in question look nothing like the above example. They're badly twisted as well as being torn. But that's what nearly 30,000 psi pressure--the load required to complete the destruction of the gun in question--will produce.

I no longer have the magazine, retaining only a Xerox copy of the article for my files. If anyone has it and can reproduce the photo, posting it here would provide an interesting comparison.

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The odds are heavily in favor of our shooting our old doubles without major failure. I figure tens of thousands of old doulbles get used every year. A burst like this one is so rare it is news we talk about for a couple weeks or more. We have a great interest in the failures and probably mention the majority of them on boards like this one. If failures were common they would not hold our attention so long.

Caution and common sense precautions reduce the risk to a minimum but every time a gun is fired there is an infinitesimal risk of failure. A few years back there was a string of K80 trap gun failures. Multiple burst, over a year or so. Final cause never clearly determined but more than a few decided it was either a metal problem or the new AA two peice hull separation that caused a barrel obstruction. Neither view was conclusively proven but I know many K80 shooters who refuse to use AA ammo as a precaution.

Some suggested reloads were the true cause. The one gun I saw personally, was owned by a friend who has never reloaded a shell in his life. He was shooting AA factory ammo at the time. Every failure is unique and must be evaluated on its own facts. What we learn is caution and precautions are very important when shooting these old doubles.

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That hull looks about as normal as any. My Krieghoff is 52 years old, some of my Smiths are 125 years old or more and my AA empties are from 1 to 20 years old. I try to stay away from two piece hulls, but I have enough one piece AA hulls to last me a lifetime. I feel that the switch away from compression formed hulls was a ridiculous decision that causes all this confusion about blow up accidents. I have never had an accident in 60 years of shotshell reloading.

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