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Originally Posted By: BrentD
Perry would not lack of compression in the forcing cone have to result in higher pressure? Seems like it would. Maybe not enough to matter though.

I had the cones lengthened in my Merkel back in the early 90s. I could not discern any before-after differences but figured it couldn't hurt while the the tubes were being put in.


I see your point Brent. I had just never thought of the pressure aspect when considering the lack of compression of the steel shot which often resulted in a bulge at the muzzle. Do you (or anyone else here) think lengthening the forcing cone would be enough to preclude the muzzle ring bulge? The only thing anyone ever told me when I started using steel, which by the way was not until my first duck hunt in 1993, was to never go with anything tighter than a modified choke with any steel shot, especially the larger diameter ones like 2's and larger.


Perry M. Kissam
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Originally Posted By: BrentD
How does the pressure fall before the shot moves? Where does it go? After all, the pressure is created by the additional space that the combustion products need relative to the solid powder. The only way the pressure can fall is if the gases expand, and the only way that gases can expand is if the shot moves.


First & Foremost I did not say the pressure fell before the shot moved, quite the contrary. The only way the pressure can fall is for something to move, or I assume to wait long enough for the heat to dissipate.

Upon the charge moving the volume of the combustion chamber enlarges rapidly. The shot has moved enough for the pressure to have peaked & started falling before the forcing cone comes into play. I can well see the lower compression of the steel compared to lead resulting in a slowing of the pressure fall so that the pressure may remain higher through the cone with steel than with lead, but I do not see it giving an increase in the max peak pressure of the load.

Also, I do not see an increase of pressure being the cause of the bulged chokes with early steel loads. Most users of steel went to larger shot sizes & they simply "Jammed" in the choke reduction & battered the thin walls in that area. Later steel loads use thicker, more compressible walls in their shot cups so that problem has been greatly lessened.


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What about a Baikal SXS ?
Cheaper than your ammo for the day and if you run out of shells you can beat things to death with it. wink


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Originally Posted By: Nick. C
What about a Baikal SXS ?
Cheaper than your ammo for the day and if you run out of shells you can beat things to death with it. wink


smile


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I recall an article that reported one of the proof houses in the UK deliberately fired a Baikal 12 ga. barrel with a deliberately obstructed barrel by placing a 20 ga. shell ahead of the 12. With high speed videography of the barrel, the pressure bulge could be seen travelling down the barrel and out like a rabbit going down a diamondback with no apparent damage to the barrel. I've also read claims by Benelli doing the same with one of its pump guns.

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I cannot remember who it was, but there was a frequent poster here who once told of doing that same thing for a class of youth to whom he was teaching gun safety. He said the Baikal simple blew the 20 ga. out the muzzle with no apparent damage to the gun.

SRH


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Originally Posted By: Perry M. Kissam
Originally Posted By: BrentD
Perry would not lack of compression in the forcing cone have to result in higher pressure? Seems like it would. Maybe not enough to matter though.

I had the cones lengthened in my Merkel back in the early 90s. I could not discern any before-after differences but figured it couldn't hurt while the the tubes were being put in.


I see your point Brent. I had just never thought of the pressure aspect when considering the lack of compression of the steel shot which often resulted in a bulge at the muzzle. Do you (or anyone else here) think lengthening the forcing cone would be enough to preclude the muzzle ring bulge? The only thing anyone ever told me when I started using steel, which by the way was not until my first duck hunt in 1993, was to never go with anything tighter than a modified choke with any steel shot, especially the larger diameter ones like 2's and larger.


TSS proves lack of compression plays very little part in the equation.

I suspect the early troubles steel shot had was because of the steel rusting in the hull turning the shot charge into basically a slug.

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A friend tells of the time he raised his Ithaca trap single and no shot at the target. Embarrased for not loading, he was careful to load this time. Heavy recoil and an odd report followed. He hit the bird and the remnants of the 20ga hull landed on top of the trap house. No permanent damage to the gun.

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