doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com .22 Rimfire ballistics.

craigd, you might try Eley or Lapua subsonic hollowpoints. They will not fragment or destroy any meat and they are extremely accurate, relative to all but the most expensive, match-grade solid ammo (the $25/box stuff. But neither Eley or Lapua are cheap. They run $10-11 a box. Worth it though. Quite as well.

When I first started squirrel I used either hi-speed LR or Short because that was all which was readily available to me as a rural boy with only small towns readily accessible. Then this gentleman put me on to these standard velocity LR loads. Sure what energy goes out the back side of the squirrel is wasted, Who cares. The problem with the short bullet in LR rifling is not the lack of stabilization as the short specific barrel has a slower twist than a LR barrel. The problem is Over stabilization. Lack of stabilization will cause a bullet to tumble, over stabilization does not. The main concern here id it can magnify ant imperfection in the balance of a bullet more so that one which is just properly stabilized. I shot from fairly short range up to longer ranges but not normally at extreme ranges. I was hunting in hill country & often to find a clearing to shoot through would end up on the lower side of the tree, which added to the range. Most of my hunting was done early in the season when the leaves were still on the trees. I lioked to take advantage of when they were "Cutting" rather than later when many were feeding on the ground.

By the 1960s there was no longer a price advantage to shorts, the LR was a lot more versatile & shot better. Seemed like a No-Brainer to me. AND Neither would "Knock" the squirrel off a limb, You had to Kill it hope it wiggled enough to fall, most did. My problems with lodged were virtually from hitting another limb on the way down. Unless they were very precariously balanced there shooting them with a .22 would not knock them loose, nearly always had to resort to some other method. Most of the ones I shot were greys, but occasionally would encounter some Fox Squirrels & shot a good number of ground Hogs using this same load. Right across in front of my house was a small creek. On the far side of it was a sheer bluff with caves which went back inside. Groundhogs, as well as coons, would den in them. One day in early spring I spotted a young tender groundhog sunning atop a large slanted rock which had fallen out of the bluff. I got the Mossberg out I got within about 30-35 yds of it, aimed & fired & two of them rolled off that rock. Sometimes a bit of extra power is not a bad thing. Perhaps I read Robert Rurak too much in my teens but have always remembered his phrase, "Use Enough Gun". The LR is enough for most Fur type small game, but Not Too Much just as the 20 gauge is enough for many upland Feathers, but never Too much. Simply have no desire to go smaller than either.

Having used everything from CB caps to hyper-velocity LR rounds for a lifetime, for the gamut of uses, I've never found shorts to be superior to Longs or Long Rifles, for anything. That said, I may have never used them for the exact things others have. Usually, the high velocity stuff passes through and leaves the critter in place, unless it kicks or reacts in such a way as to cause it to move from where it was hit. One exception ......

When I want a mess of bullfrog legs really bad I go to the ponds/lakes on my place at night with a .22 and a spotlight. We get in a boat and paddle slowly, and quietly, while the man in the front shines the banks at water level for frogs. The other man, the paddler usually, has a scoped .22 rifle. The frog always, without exception, sits right above water level, facing the water. You aim at the white throat patch just under it's "chin". A LR hollow point will kill the frog outright, and it flops backwards onto it's back, not to even twitch. I've never tried a Short hollow-point, but it might work just as well. Funny thing is, solids don't work as well. I can't imagine the bullet can be expanding in a bullfrog's neck, but that's the way the results are. HPs work best.

I could just gig them like most folks, but I just don't like seeing a stuck frog trying to push itself off the prongs of a gig with it's front feet. And I really don't like seeing them try to crawl away with their front feet after cutting their hind legs off, back on the bank. Gigged frogs rarely die from the gig. Call me a softie, but I want it dead when I put it in the fish well.

SRH

Stan a frog's nervous system will keep them moving long after death. Ever notice how the legs kick when they hit the grease? It is a blood sport, just like so much else we do.

I don't know if it's right, but I think about it sometimes when I pick up a dove and crack its head on something. Like Old Ed, I might quit someday, but not today...Geo

Yep, I know. And, we're all going to quit someday, voluntarily or involuntarily.

But you know, I wouldn't like working in a packing house for cattle and hogs, either. At least with the 'frogs and doves I can do it my way.

SRH

At some distance any HP .22 - short, std vel, hi-speed - becomes a solid. Pays to experiment w/different weights, velocities, brands. Red squirrels make a good test bed. And I kill them year round. Mostly use LR sub-HPs now, as they are most accurate. But everything works because distances are short. Get some with the Single Six and #12 shot, and sometimes a M-42. No need for segmented HPs.

Also shoot crows, some past 100 yds. Yard is ranged, and the 20x SWFA turrets are very nice. CCI sub-HPs start punching through like solids after 60 yds. Get fly-offs on long pokes, but was shooting them b/c we had to replant a cornfield. Next year they stayed away. So I kept my part of the deal, ie., left them alone.

For bigger stuff like porkies and nuisance beaver much prefer HS .22 LR HPs. Couple weeks ago brained a odd-behaving skunk. Luckily, it didn't spray. Had it in for a red fox that grabbed couple of my hens. I saw the tail end, arrived too late. Happily a neighbor - also with chickens - got it with his .22. I say that b/c this particular red had very distinctive light tint and color pattern.

Agreed. But, at 'frog distance (20 ft. or so) I'm not so sure that's the case. Not sure what it is but, something about them makes a difference.

Best, SRH

[ "Not sure what it is but, something about them makes a difference." ] Stan

That something is unexpended power. When I shoot a frog in the sand, or mud, a long rifle goes through the target and hits the dirt so hard it sometimes flips the frog ten feet or more up the bank and often into the grass. The short HP leaves them where you shoot them...Geo

Stan,
Read the reviews from the MidwayUSA link on the CCI HV .22 Short Hollow Points I posted earlier. They reflect my experiences controlling squirrels in my yard that trash it with green pine cone litter.

Try it on bullfrogs. You will be impressed.
JR

To me accuracy is the most important element of .22 hunting ammo, and target ammunition is where I start. An older Paco Accurizer http://pacotools.com/tool_discriptions turns the round nose ammo to flat pointed versions for squirrels, the couple woodchucks I've shot were young and I left the high speed LR rounds with their noses round for better likelihood of penetrating sufficiently. I've wound up with higher velocity rounds for squirrels simply because they shot the best in the two rifles I use; one's a HP I use as-is and the RN version gets the RNFP treatment. Have not left any squirrels stuck in a tree and hope it never happens.