doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com What made it blow up game. Care to play?

Obviously, this was caused by the barrel wall failing.

If only we could recover the missing segment of barrel, we could send it to METL for expert metallurgical analysis.

If the initial report found ferrous contamination in the braze joint, we could show an EDX spectrograph the next day to then say that the contamination was manganese sulfide.

Perhaps the steel in the missing segment was burned. But NOT burned in the normal sense where severe overheating actually burned carbon out of the steel, rather burned like a dirty scorched cooking pot.

Then, a totally erroneous statement such as this always makes a lasting impression upon the impressionable:

[quote=Drew Hause] Oxidized debris = burned steel [quote]

In addition, it would be most helpful and informative to post a bunch of photos of totally unrelated barrel bursts to cover the fact that you don't have a clue.

This is the Doublegunshop equivalent of attempting to portray yourself as an Award Winning Winemaker, when nothing could be further from the truth.

Unfortunate that cowardly bullies like William and Frank lurk in threads, waiting for others with the willingness to provide opinions (which may be proved wrong) or factual data, but lack the cojones themselves to offer anything but BS and criticism of those opinions, and can't help but show their obsession and hatred by reviving past feuds.

Sorry gentlemen, then I'll give it a rest

A. Pagliuca, Metallurgist
Metals Engineering & Testing Laboratories
"The braze contamination descriptions are kept vague because that's about as conclusive a statement we can make based on the data. The concentrations of iron and oxygen detected could technically be consistent with corrosion (rust) or overheated steel. Based on where it was observed in the braze, we need to refer to it as ferrous braze contamination. We don't know exactly what it is. This could have occurred during the brazing process (likely) and been exaggerated over time by successive heating cycles, moisture, etc via possible alloy segregation effects, electromigration and such phenomena."

This is the braze joint with manganese sulfide inclusions and ferrous debris



Keith - how about you start another thread instead of dumping equine fecal matter all over this one? Maybe let us know what your safe wall thickness criteria are?

And back to the topic - what is your opinion as to the cause of the "barrel wall failing"?

Drew, never apologize for not being in the wrong.

The cretins will as the cretins do. Just keep doing what you do and we will all benefit and enjoy it.

One of the pictures that I thought was interesting on the other thread showed the 'ferrous braze contamination' appearing to be completely encircled by braze. It had the look to me of what flux can do, clean oxides off the steel and allow the braze to flow. In other words, it still could be a successful and adequate braze if(?) the braze still flowed and bonded to the rib and barrel.

Some of the past pictures seemed to show braze that was still bonded to the rib, but very little to none on the barrel. I think the worrisome oxides are not the small islands that're completely encircled by braze, but the seeming unbroken sheet of oxide, possibly rust, that that looked to run along the barrel and may have penetrated the barrel in the form of pitting at what I think was referred to as the intiation point.

Back to this gun, since there's an answer to come, I'm going to guess there's another picture coming of something in the barrel. Maybe, a wad or part of a separated hull based on how far downstream the burst seems to be.

I do not believe this to be a typical 12/20 burst as the 20 will lodge in the forcing cone. This burst was out beyond the forend, too far for that.

Once the Ultimate Tensile strength of the steel is reached a burst occurs. I truly wonder how one tells how much more pressure was involved than that. As soon as that burst occurs the remaining pressure Runs Out the Hole in the Wall. There is ample & Conclusive evidence which has been collected for a century or two that an obstruction can build enough "Localized" pressure to burst the Finest & Strongest barrel.

I Eagerly await the verdict.

I hope its been a little entertaining and you have waited patiently, so here it is. But first a some info on the shooter. Master class in sporting clays as is his son who was present. Approx 60 years old. But the most important thing is I know and shoot with them and because he owned up to this whole situation, we get to armchair analyze it by letting me take pictures. No disparaging remarks about him are needed.

Shooter wanted to see if the LC Smith would function and fire before the sxs event started. He drained the shot only out of a pair of shells. Went to the practice field and fired both. Momentary lapse of reason on his part then occurred when he immediately placed a fully loaded round in the rh hand barrel and touched it off without checking the bore for the stuck wad. The stuck wad in the LH barrel was also still there at about exactly the same spot as the blowout. There ya have it. Watch out for yourself and keep an eye out for everyone else. Stay safe.

Yep; Obstruction burst, fit all the signs including location. Remember that no two bursts are identical. One looks at the signs, but do not expect to find an exact Twin which looks just like the burst in question.

As I mentioned in an earlier post the barrel may well have been struck a bit thinner on the outside than between the barrels, obvious if more was done after assembly. The pressure may have peaked Just high enough to stress this thinner area & the stiffening of the top rib would well explain it not being bent. Had the obstruction been heavier the pressure may have risen a bit faster & bent the rib. Remember also when the load hits a "Movable" obstruction the burst will normally be a bit forward of where the actual obstruction was located.

I am sure the Gentleman who did this learned his lesson well. No Criticism from me. Do thank him for sharing with us as to what actually occurred & allowing the pictures to be posted. We all should have learned a lot from this thread.

Caused by a brain fart...it could happen to anyone.

Glad you're buddy wasn't hurt.




No whiney X'spurt needed.

Thanks for the opportunity to see another barrel burst example, replete with the known cause. Excellent.

Bet he never does that again ..............

SRH

I think one possible take away from the scenario is that the pressure that caused this blow up might be symmetrical. Maybe as Miller pointed out, asymmetrical external appearances might have something to do with asymmetry of the hoop in the area. It could be that many blow ups would be ring bulges, but are altered by variables.