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This is a pic of my late style double flint W.H. Wilson, London 16 bore. The inspection mark of crown over V is there and what appears to be a plain P below what might have been a crown? But not the GP usually found on guns built after 1637. Anyone ideas on what proof rules it fell under? Am I seeing it right? No other proof mark is visible and I don’t believe the barrels have been refinished.



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Joe, I'm no expert, but doesn't it look like that "P" might actually CP under a crown?


Last edited by Argo44; 07/19/19 12:11 PM.

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The "CP" mark is actually GP, Gunmakers Proof, which was a mark of the London house.
The mark on Joe's gun does not appear to me to have ever had the entwined GP, just a P. Can't tell from the p[icture if it had a crown over it or not.


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Miler, there does appear to be a vague crown above the P.


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It is CP as in Company Proof.London proof house is operatd by members of the worhipful company of gunmakers.


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Lee Kennett wrote in "A History of Proof Marks, Gun Proof in England" (Gun Digest 1977 Edition, p.161) that "Another variant, and a more baffling one, is the frequent appearance of a crowned P in conjunction with the usual view mark. The theories concerning this mark are many: that it is the result of a defective London die, a mark of a proof house in Liverpool, or in Dublin (where it is known that arms were proved in the 18th century), or possibly the mark of private proof in Birmingham. That it is the mark of proof elsewhere seems plausible, for the London authorities from time to time seized arms bearing other marks."

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Originally Posted By: Hugh Lomas
It is CP as in Company Proof.London proof house is operatd by members of the worhipful company of gunmakers.


I disagree, and agree with Miller that the letters in the proof mark in question are indeed GP, based upon the information in Wirnsberger's book The Standard Directory of Proof Marks. On page 99, this is written:

"On 14 March 1637, the gunsmiths banded together and founded the Worshipful Company of Gunmakers of the City of London. this name has been retained to this day, .................

It was at this time that the Crown over GP was first used and to this day, this is the mark of the London proof house..............

In the year 1670 the charter was confirmed and the power of the organization was extended. The Crown over GP was retained and yet another proof was added - the inspection after proof - and this was marked with Crown over V."



That is a direct quote from the book. There is no mention in the book of any English proof mark containing a CP, that I can find.


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That (GP) is confirmed by the London Proof House website : https://www.gunmakers.org.uk/the-proof-house/

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Thanks, Stan & 300846 for the conformation on the GP. That is the way I have always heard it stated as well. I do have a copy of Wirnsberger's book, just had not gotten it out. If you look at the mark itself though it is rather easy to see how the two letters intertwine to form both the G & the P which as I stated in my post stand for Gunmaker's Proof.

What would a C represent?


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Originally Posted By: peevedoff
Lee Kennett wrote in "A History of Proof Marks, Gun Proof in England" (Gun Digest 1977 Edition, p.161) that "Another variant, and a more baffling one, is the frequent appearance of a crowned P in conjunction with the usual view mark. The theories concerning this mark are many: that it is the result of a defective London die, a mark of a proof house in Liverpool, or in Dublin (where it is known that arms were proved in the 18th century), or possibly the mark of private proof in Birmingham. That it is the mark of proof elsewhere seems plausible, for the London authorities from time to time seized arms bearing other marks."

Markus


Good find!, Marcus. I think you’ve unraveled a good part of the mystery. I have not seen any other reference to the plain P mark.

The only difference from your Gun Digest quote is my gun’s view proof is from the London proof house.

Last edited by Joe Wood; 07/23/19 12:45 PM.

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