doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com heavy loads for short 16?

How much payload are you getting into the 16 ga 2 1/2 inch hull? Are you having to use multimetal wads without the cushion section? Has anyone tried cutting out the cushioning "legs" of a rem 1 18 oz wad and restacking it into the hull? Would that practice cause a pressure spike? About the best I have been able to do is 525 gr of #5 shot, and then I have remaining enough space to buffer the load and feel comfortable that the crimping will not buckle the sidewalls of the hull. Anyone using low bulk powder, etc. to realize more load volume. Give me you best shot (load data-wise) Thanks. Steve

Sounds like "risky business" here- use a 12 bore and play it safe if you want to "re-invent the 2&1/2" "shorty shell"-- Old bit of farm land wisdom- don't try putting 8 lbs. of horse grain in a 5 lb. sack-- RWTF

There were 1 1/8 oz loads available in the old pre-WWII short American shells, although they were 2 9/16" rather than 2 1/2".

Whatever you come up with, I'd suggest having it pressure tested by someone like Tom Armbrust. You might also check out 16ga.com and see if anyone there has any suggestions. There is also a 16ga reloaders group you might consider joining.

525 grains is 1.2 ounces. Not enough, get a 12 gauge.

While the progressive burning powder, high velocity, loads in 12- and 20-gauge were introduced, circa 1922, put up in 2 3/4 inch cases, but just a bit later that year or early 1923 when the 16-gauge progressive burning powder loads were introduced they were put up in 2 9/16 inch cases.





The 2 3/4 inch 16-gauge shell really began to get some traction when Remington Arms Co., Inc. introduced their Model 11 and "Sportsman" autoloaders in 16-gauge in 1931, chambered for 2 3/4 inch shells. While Remington's regular Nitro Express 16-gauge progressive burning powder load was put up in a 2 9/16 inch hull with a load of 3 drams equiv. pushing 1 1/8 ounce of shot, for their new 16-gauge autoloaders they introduced the slightly faster Auto-Express with a 3 1/4 drams equiv. charge pushing 1 1/8 ounce of shot --

Researcher;
When did the 1� oz 16 gauge "Baby Magnum" load come out? I seem to recall the late 1950s but not sure. I seem to recall the 12, 16 & 20 all in 2 3/4" hulls got 1� oz, 1� oz & 1 1/8 oz respectfully all at the same time.

First question is this a British gun with 2 1/2� chambers? If so what are the proof marks? If American I�d expect a 2 9/16 or 2 3/4� chamber. Define your gun so people can estimate what pressures it was designed for.

If British there is no 1 1/2 ounce load which would be safe. Zero. Nor a 1 3/8 or 1 1/4 ounce load. I would stick to 1 ounce loads tops in a 2 1/2�, 16. Just because you might find a single load does not mean it will be kind to the gun and stock.

As to altering wads that is a bad idea unless you send six shells out for pressure testing. Taking away the Crush section, to create extra space, will alter both chamber pressure and cause more shot deformation at setback. If the load tests safe pressure wise, you then need to pattern it to see if it is worth using.

While I don't have a "dog in this fight" I am interested because I am a 16 ga. man of long standing. My WW2 era short shells have a roll crimp, whereas 2 3/4" shells usually have a "star" crimp. I would think a star crimp would require a longer case for the same load and wad column.
Mike

The 12-, 16- and 20-gauge 2 3/4 inch Magnums first appear in the December 15, 1954, Western Super-X and Xpert ammunition price list.

Our ammunition companies all introduced the folded "pie" crimp on their Trap loads and 12-, 16- and 20-gauge Skeet loads circa 1939.





The world wide unpleasantness kept the pie crimp from being added to the high velocity hunting loads, Super-X, Super-Speed, Remington Express and High-Velocity until the 1946 to 48 time frame. As far as I can tell, even though our ammunition companies continued to offer 2 9/16 inch 16-gauge shells into the early 1960s, they never got the pie crimp.

WHY?

The 16ga is perfect with an ounce of lead, I use 1 oz. of NP BB's for coyoty hunting in my 2 1/2" 16's. An ounce of lead 5's is perfect for wild pheasants out of my 12 ga 2 1/2". 7/8 oz. of ITX or bismuth is perfect out of my 2 1/2" 12ga foe waterfowl and 3/4 oz. of the same in my short 16's

1 oz NP BB's 1926 drilling taken with the shotgun barrel.



and another



1 oz. of lead in the Short 12.