March
S M T W T F S
1 2
3 4 5 6 7 8 9
10 11 12 13 14 15 16
17 18 19 20 21 22 23
24 25 26 27 28 29 30
31
Who's Online Now
6 members (Marc Ret, Argo44, LGF, Ian Forrester, Ted Schefelbein, LeFusil), 823 guests, and 3 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Statistics
Forums10
Topics38,374
Posts544,009
Members14,391
Most Online1,131
Jan 21st, 2024
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 1 of 3 1 2 3
#561693 12/31/19 11:57 AM
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,174
Sidelock
**
OP Offline
Sidelock
**

Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,174
I was having a conversation the other day with my brother who owns a cabinet company. He was talking about recent advances in CNC machining regarding wood working. It got me thinking about their application in stock making. I showed him a picture of Holland & Holland stock including the inletting for the lock work and he wondered why these stocks could not be done with CNC machining to the same quality as by hand. Any insight on how much CNC is used in modern production for stocks? Are there limitations to what the current machines can do? Or is it just too expensive to buy the right machines for the job? Seems like it could cut down on costs considerably if you had enough volume to make up for the purchase of the machines.

Last edited by Adam Stinson; 12/31/19 12:00 PM.
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 423
Likes: 9
Sidelock
**
Offline
Sidelock
**

Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 423
Likes: 9
Hi Adam ,I do know that a gunsmith friend of mine has dabbled with some success running out rifle stocks on CNC.

Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 2,009
Likes: 22
Sidelock
**
Offline
Sidelock
**

Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 2,009
Likes: 22
I'm sure that firms like Holland and Purdey use CNC equipment for metal parts, and I think they've had Hoenig stock duplicators for years. The varying dimensions of stocks and the relatively small numbers of them might mean that CNC tools wouldn't be a help. Just my speculation.


Bill Ferguson
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 6,980
Likes: 397
SKB Offline
Sidelock
***
Offline
Sidelock
***

Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 6,980
Likes: 397
I use my CNC mill for some stock work. I have done the inletting on several fore arms this way and then shaped the remainder from a block.


http://www.bertramandco.com/
Booking African hunts, firearms import services

Here for the meltdowns
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 748
Likes: 15
Sidelock
***
Offline
Sidelock
***

Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 748
Likes: 15
Adam, I think your question is a good one and I'm only guessing that large shops such as Beretta, for example, do use CNC equipment for stock production. The advantage being that once you have a program set up you can reproduce for a larger run. That said I have two very good friends that have CNC equipment. One uses for producing very complex barrel contours complete with full length integral matted rib and the other to produce very high quality rifle actions.

I can only guess again that shops such as H&H might use CNC but are certainly use high quality pantographs such as Hoenig for single use. As I said, I'm only guessing.


Doug Mann
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 13,127
Likes: 1128
Sidelock
**
Offline
Sidelock
**

Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 13,127
Likes: 1128
You can go to Perazzi, in person, and be measured for a new stock, choose your blank, have it "CNCed", completed by hand, and fire the gun for confirmation of fit in one day's visit.

This shows part of the process.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0j9NzAp46wU&list=TLPQMzExMjIwMTniOS3CtHvoww&index=1

Best, SRH


May God bless America and those who defend her.
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 775
Likes: 35
Sidelock
***
Offline
Sidelock
***

Joined: May 2004
Posts: 775
Likes: 35
Adam, I had a couple of sidelock stocks copied by pantograph and it was anything but easy to then make the finished stocks fit the action as one might have hoped.
There was considerable work needed by a experienced stocker to bring the two together. I used three different people who were time-served stockers at the top of their game and they were all spitting bullets by the time they had the job done.
The problem seems to be mainly that the pantograph works too fast for the wood to stabilise in the process so that it moves and distorts as you work. In some areas they had to let in fillets of wood to correct for the distortion of the wood after the machining. A nightmare!
The guy who did my copying in the USA finally stopped doing shotguns because of this problem and he would leave the job partially inlet for days at a time in an attempt to stabilise the stock as he worked.
Of course, inletting a CNC made, draw bolt, triggerplate O/U is a very different job from a traditionally hand-made, breech bolt, sidelock S/S which is why Perazzi et al can easily CNC a stock to fit but Purdey et al only use a pantograph for the most basic roughing out of replacement stock.
Rifle stocks lend themselves to the process much more than shotguns.
The biggest problem with CNC is you would need a perfect 3D scan of the inletting WITH extra wood left behind in all the key places for the final finishing. And every gun is different so a fresh scan would be required with all the additional tweaks....!

Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 6,980
Likes: 397
SKB Offline
Sidelock
***
Offline
Sidelock
***

Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 6,980
Likes: 397
There is a whole lot of art involved in running a pantograph machine and a big learning curve involved. Personally I find that if I build the pattern, run it through the pantograph myself and then inlet it the process becomes more manageable. Here is a Stephen Grant sidelock I built the pattern to the client's dimensions, turned it then fit it.






Fore end inletting cut to .010" under final fit done by hand.



http://www.bertramandco.com/
Booking African hunts, firearms import services

Here for the meltdowns
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 518
Likes: 4
Sidelock
**
Offline
Sidelock
**

Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 518
Likes: 4
I cannot imagine any modern manufacturer not having a bank of CNC machines doing inletting and exterior shaping. Why would you do it any other way, unless you can't afford or are unable to program the machinery? Certainly, there are the boutique makers whose reputation permits them to cling hidebound to hand shaping of wood and metal, but at that point you are talking art, its very high cost, and pride of ownership, without any practical gain in function.

Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 1,053
Likes: 8
Sidelock
**
Offline
Sidelock
**

Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 1,053
Likes: 8
Several years ago I stumbled on a video of a stock being made by a CNC machine. It was an incredible machine, multiple axes, and it inleted a side-lock stock in great detail. The machine changed cutters several times, all automatically. IIRC, it was an Italian machine but I can't remember the name of the company nor have I been able to find it again.

They stated that they could duplicate any stock, but when I contacted them about doing a stock for me, the answer was that the cost of writing the software for a specific stock would be too expensive.

Anyone out there remember that video?

Page 1 of 3 1 2 3

Link Copied to Clipboard

doublegunshop.com home | Welcome | Sponsors & Advertisers | DoubleGun Rack | Doublegun Book Rack

Order or request info | Other Useful Information

Updated every minute of everyday!


Copyright (c) 1993 - 2024 doublegunshop.com. All rights reserved. doublegunshop.com - Bloomfield, NY 14469. USA These materials are provided by doublegunshop.com as a service to its customers and may be used for informational purposes only. doublegunshop.com assumes no responsibility for errors or omissions in these materials. THESE MATERIALS ARE PROVIDED "AS IS" WITHOUT WARRANTY OF ANY KIND, EITHER EXPRESS OR IMPLIED, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, THE IMPLIED WARRANTIES OF MERCHANT-ABILITY, FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE, OR NON-INFRINGEMENT. doublegunshop.com further does not warrant the accuracy or completeness of the information, text, graphics, links or other items contained within these materials. doublegunshop.com shall not be liable for any special, indirect, incidental, or consequential damages, including without limitation, lost revenues or lost profits, which may result from the use of these materials. doublegunshop.com may make changes to these materials, or to the products described therein, at any time without notice. doublegunshop.com makes no commitment to update the information contained herein. This is a public un-moderated forum participate at your own risk.

Note: The posting of Copyrighted material on this forum is prohibited without prior written consent of the Copyright holder. For specifics on Copyright Law and restrictions refer to: http://www.copyright.gov/laws/ - doublegunshop.com will not monitor nor will they be held liable for copyright violations presented on the BBS which is an open and un-moderated public forum.

Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5
(Release build 20201027)
Responsive Width:

PHP: 7.0.33-0+deb9u11+hw1 Page Time: 0.077s Queries: 35 (0.056s) Memory: 0.8511 MB (Peak: 1.8988 MB) Data Comp: Off Server Time: 2024-03-28 22:09:55 UTC
Valid HTML 5 and Valid CSS