doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Promo load and 20ga Elsie Field grade

Bought 100 rounds 10 years ago Winchester "Universal" 2 3/4 and 7/8oz 2 1/2 dram equivalent and been hesitant to use them in my slender 20ga Elsie field grade. Unsuccessful search for pressure. Appreciate assistance, opinions.

Depends, in part, on the age and era of mfg. of your 20 bore. About 1930-ish, 20 bores were chambered for the then std. 2&3/4" paper shells of that era. Also, bear in mind that all 20 bore Smiths "from the git-go" through the end in the 1950's-- were built on the FW frame-- so any express loads would be a possible problem, especially if your Smith has a straight hand style buttstock.

I've been collecting and shooting Smiths for over 30 years, I'll consider a graded Smith 12 bore R frame with a straight hand stock (and 2 triggers) but will pass up a similarly equipped Smith in 20 bore-- not enough timber in the stock head to suit me. RWTF

That settles it, Fox. Thank you. It's 1915. Too precious to me to risk it.

You're welcome. Glad my "advice rung the cherries this time". Weighing the possible savings of using these older 2.75" 20 loads against the possible repair (if possible) costs of this 1915 era "Elsie"- whether a field grade or a 4E-- against the price of way safer choice of using 2.5" RST shells-- you get my drift.

I use 2.5" RST in my 5 12 bore Elsies for SC, barn pigeons, pheasants over pointing dogs-- Best shells for the $, IMO.

I have an Elsie field grade 20 that was upgraded by Turnbull before I got it. Still an Elsie 20, though. 28", .006"x.006", DT, straight grip with splinter (new wood by Turnbull). Have not used it much, but when I shot doves with it, I used promo loads from WalMart with no issues.

Measure the chambers, they should be 2.5". The problem with promo loads is they are high enough pressure to run dirty semiautos. RST loads 2 1/2 20's at around 7500 psi. Check the FAQ on the LC collectors site and it tells you what the original service loads were.

Bro. King: your Smith's hang tag listed 2 1/4 Dram (1155 fps) with 7/8 oz. shot.
That load with Bulk Smokeless was about 7500-8500 psi; with Dense Smokeless 1000 - 1500 psi higher.

Hunter Arms Co. lengthened the 20 gauge chambers from 2 1/2" to 2 3/4" in 1936.

While some modern 20g plastic hull 2 3/4" shells are shorter than 2 3/4", I would still not use one in a 2 1/2" chamber

This thread relates to Elsie guns but I add here the Fiochi 20gauge shell shown in pix will often hang up while trying to eject in Winchester Mod 12 shotguns made and chambered for 2 3/4. Its just a hair to long.

Interesting- does this scenario occur with Fiocchi 16 and 12 gauge "promo loads" as well as with the 20 bore? RWTF

16 Gauge, yes in a Win Model 12
12 Gauge, no in a Win Model 12

Mike

P.S. I normally use 2 1/2 hulls for the 16 or at least the
shorter Remington hulls for the Win Model 12 and the Old Browning A-5s.