doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DIY Gunsmithing @ doublegunshop.com Stock finishing questions

I do find this grouped of postings extremely interesting for a number of reasons so I kept my comments to when it slowed down. I have framed my interest as a number of questions.
Why the fascination with �Slakum� because at the time of its sort of its inception Our queen Victoria was on the throne so let�s say before nineteen hundred though she did not slip off her mortal coil until nineteen hundred and 1. So we are talking about a finish made up of ingredients available a hundred years ago so considering the type of finishes we have today it is rather low on the performance list. UNLESS you want to provide a vintage gun with a true vintage finish. My question is if you spent a lot of money and a considerable amount of time restoring a vintage car would you re spray it with cellulose or two pack paint?
Venice turpentine or the not so high class name �boiled Larch Sap� at the time of its use in the eighteen hundreds it worked well but not brilliantly and today good for Horses hoof�s and Artists to give body to oil paint, though what seems to be left out of information regarding a finish using Venice Turpentine is that the stock needs to have a little Linseed Oil to be applied a couple of times a year to keep the finish up to a serviceable level and of course look good. Though this is not a bad thing because Slakum and oil finishes are in the wood and not on the top.
The REAL magic for a formula associated with gun stock finishing oil is 1 : ! : I from all the way back in time to the days of sailing ships and the mean penny pinching British Admiralty, because they had this large problem of ships Spars rotting and over time they came up with a viable cure to slow the rot down, Spar is the clue for this rot cure are you with me? SPAR VARNISH!!!! At the time made up from one part Copal one part Tung Oil one part Turpentine, though all far too expensive for the money saving Admiralty after a time things where adjusted to Copal Linseed Oil cheap home produced rather than oil from at the time China and still keeping Turpentine.
This varnish was so good at wood protection that it did not take long for it to be used for wood protection and of course keeping the Brit weather out of gun stocks amongst all the other things. Now the 1 : !: 1 ratio came up again and still used today for modern gun stock finishing oil, one part spar varnish one part turpentine substitute (mineral spirits) one part linseed oil with as many tweaks to the mix formula as grains of sand in a bucket from different makers.
I will just give one example though there are hundreds. If you obtain the Health and Safety certificate (that is what they are called here), this is it in a nut shell 56% Mineral Spirits. 33% Modified Oil. 11% Linseed Oil from a large selling brand.
I won�t paint the whole picture but I am sure that it is not a huge mental leap to figure out that modified oil is, other than one with a form of resin incorporated. It is good to see that the subject of stock finishing oils is still a hot topic still and the way it has been talked about since the true protection of gunstocks was needed and my personal thought on this is from the time when expensive pieces of Walnut started to be fitted to guns.
So please experiment but please look forward and not back in time and experiment with modern products though please keep the tried and tested oils to give that satin look, but use the waxes as a final dressing on the finish because that is where they work the best if you put them in they reduce the overall effectiveness

As I mentioned, I am but a poor amateur. There are many much more experienced people here than me. I love to tinker and experiment and I thought it would be nice putting a period appropriate finish on a very old gun. Since I couldn't make it with all the exact ingredients of the original formulas I started to modify it to give me the same low gloss finish that would accentuate the grain.

So, please take anything I say with the understanding that it may not be the best advice. I love reading most posters here, especially the ones I know can walk the walk and talk the talk.

As a relative newcomer to the discussion, I really enjoy the many perspectives and 'overhearing' the conversation between amateurs and professionals and 'the old guard'.

My feeling is this: the discussion about finishes is similar to the discussion about guns in general. There is something to be said for simple aesthetics and tradition. As Damascus suggested, vintage for vintage is a reasonable choice.

Consider why we in this forum choose to shoot side by side shotguns in the first place. Yes, there are a few practical advantages, but it's really difficult to argue that a vintage sxs is superior to the latest cerakoted auto loader, when it comes to pure function.

Similarly, when it comes to finishes, from a purely practical standpoint, the latest coatings undoubtedly outshine any of the older formulas, but they also - from what I have seen - do not match the aesthetic feel of the old oil formulas. That may be romantic imagination on my part. If so, I've had that idea since before I knew what I was looking at: I remember, as far back as high school days in the 1990s, looking at high end guns in magazines and wondering how the finish could be so deep and clear.

A question for Damascus: since your slakum finish is one that folks reference frequently, are you suggesting that we should be using something more modern? Or is the addition of copal enough to replicate the old spar protection? In other words, why go to all that trouble when there are commercial spar/oil finished available?

On a related question:. Am I wrong to think that the majority of high end gunmakers in Britain at least, are using an 'old fashioned' linseed oil based finish even today?

And a final question:. I understand that varnishes could keep ship parts from deteriorating, but is that level of protection really necessary for a gun, particularly a fine gun that is mostly kept clean and dry?

I suspect that the quality of a finish or refinish job is more in the application technique rather than the products that are being used. I spent 35 years in the industrial water treatment chemical field. I always felt that I could use many different products and produce very good results. It's how they were applied that made the biggest difference. I believe there are a number of professionals and experienced amateurs here that can do the same with a gun stock.

I think there is quite a bit of range in what�s considered a varnish, and they are not necessarily different from what�s called an oil gunstock finish. Assuming a decent natural wood stock, I would think the primary reason for using a varnish is the ability for the finish to cure in a timely manner, aesthetic potential, and ultimate protection might be a lesser true need.

Woodreaux. The rather long posting of Damascuses traditional oil stock finish was in part a history in the reason behind how stock finishes evolved, also how to achieve the finish using the best traditional mixtures. If you also read the article through I suggested a method how to make a finish using modern varnish instead of going to the trouble of going down the Copal road. Using Copal is just one ingredient Amber works well and so does Pine Resin. In my posting my aim was to give all the information on how to produce a traditional finish. Woodreaux you seem to be fixated on the finishing oil rather than the full how to get there using traditional grain filler red oil etc of my posting, so your question about why go to the trouble? You go to all the trouble and the knowhow to put a traditional finish on a gun stock, but if you dont want to go to all that trouble that is your choice and True Oil is always available. I think you will find that real Spar Varnish is not that easy to obtain because makers use synthetic resins, Copal is far to expensive to be used in bulk varnish manufacture that is why I gave instructions how to make it.

Indeed, I have not seen spar without polyurethane in a decade. I used get lucky occasionally by watching the odd lot specials as local hardwares cleaned put their basements and shed storage. No more. I used the 1:1:1 ratio for a long time, especially on muzzleloaders.

Maybe I mis-communicated. I certainly didn't mean to be disagreeing. In fact, after reading your post on traditional finishing, I printed it out and bought all the ingredients that I didn't already have on hand. But your last post seemed to be suggesting that the traditional finishing methods should be abandoned in favor of "looking forward".

Before I dumped my copal and talc in the trash, I thought I should ask you for a clarification.


(I'll switch to a poly based finish when I decide to use my gun for double duty as a boat paddle).

The two products in the photograph can be used to put a passable finish on a gun stock. Now I am not saying that I give them my stamp of approval though what I will say they are food for thought and further experimentation. I am sure that you will be able to purchase both products but under different manufactures names. As you can see they are sanding sealers and these two products do that extremely well and with a little practice you can come up with a good looking stock finish from beginning to end in four hours using the cellulose and a day using the shellac version.
The cellulose dries so fast that it is doing it as you apply it and being sandable within a couple of minutes, the shellac version is a little slower, they also lend themselves to being coloured. They in their nature fill moderate grain you can also mix Talc with the shellac version for grain filling though the cellulose is a flash drying product difficult to add filler and use.
Method I used, seal the wood with a couple of coats sand to the wood surface fill the grain sand again to the wood surface then add other coats until the stock shows no grain and feels smooth. Finally mat the surface with "OOO" steel wool then use a magnet to remove steel woo whiskers from the wood then polish with three coats of Linseed oil and Wax polish allowing drying time between each coat.
You can leave the wax polish out for a time and put a couple of coats of Linseed oil with dryers though this will lengthen the time, out of the two sealers the shellac gets my vote for ease of use.
Traditional it is not, but the look of the finished product will be passable to most folks, and others will hate it only if they know how the results where achieved.

Is your "linseed oil" boiled or raw ?