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Aug 5th, 2016
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Joined: Jan 2006
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Sidelock
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The 1929 Abercrombie & Fitch Firearms & Sports Catalog is available from Cornell Pubs and would likely list the Francotte models
https://www.cornellpubs.com/old-guns/item_desc.php?item_id=874

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Originally Posted By: joda
Originally Posted By: canvasback
You mention that deactivated guns will soon be forbidden. What country are you in?


Germany.
Well, to be more precise: Deactivated guns are not completely forbidden. We are still allowed to own guns which were deactivated completely according to German laws, but we are not allowed to sell them any more. So some people are litterally sitting on piles of junk metal. This is a gun converted to firing blank cartriges. For decades, these were the slightly better alternative, since depending on the model, more parts were in working condition (not in this relatively recent conversion). If you want to keep these, you have to prove a legal reason why you should own them. Since they are not good for anything, there is no reason to own them. It's not clear yet, but probably ownership will be limited to theatres and film studios.
The only legal alternative are deactivations according to new EU specifications, but I do not know of a single company in Germany that has a license to do this conversion.


The good old control obssessed, EU,always using sledgehammers to crack non existent nuts!

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joda Offline OP
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Rob, thank you very much for posting your nice gun as a reference. I think it's quite interesting to compare #85859, #86195 and #86423. They were probably made within the same year.

#85859 and #86423 look more similar in terms of quality (drop on the stock, wings on the breech face) and configuration (Greener crossbolt).
However it seems that Francotte also used different lock plates: The positions of the pins look equal, but the screws are different, maybe because #86195 does not have cocking indicators? (edit: I realized that it has indeed cocking indicators. It looks like someone messed with them using a screw driver. So what are the two extra screws good for on the higher grade guns?)
Also the Francotte logos on the Barrels look different: #86195 has a large crown over AF, while the other two have a small crown over AF with some leaves in between. Does this mean anything?

#85859 is not a self opening action, right? I suspeect that the patent has to do something with that. On the other hand, on #86423 it looks like the standard H&H System, no? On #86195 I can hardly make it out because of the deactivation, I just see that there is something which could be similar.

Last edited by joda; 05/10/20 06:26 AM. Reason: see text
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Again, post some images of the marks. Pull the locks, post images & someone here will have knowledge of the component configuration.

Cheers,

Raimey
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Sad to see a nice gun killed like that. I find that gun much more appealing than the guns with the heavy engraving.

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joda Offline OP
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Originally Posted By: ellenbr
Again, post some images of the marks. Pull the locks, post images & someone here will have knowledge of the component configuration.

Cheers,

Raimey
rse


There are not much marks left except for the ones already posted:
Remains of "Francotte Chokebore" and the Crown over AF next to the German nitro proof from February 1971 (Ulm proof house). The calibre designation is gone. Hard to photograph but still visible are the original Belgian proofs with the 1929 datecode "h" (The barrels can't be removed since the handguard is welded to the barrels). The rest of the barrel markings is gone forever.
The laser marking is the recent proof for 9mm blank (private company and Köln proof house).



Sorry for the pictures - The gun is really dead.

I will try to get the lock plate off later.

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I simply can’t believe there exit people so completely out of touch with history and craftsmanship that they would do that to a hunting implement.

What the hell was the point?


Best,
Ted

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That is very sad

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joda Offline OP
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I took the sideplates off now (sorry, not cleaned yet). Both plates are numbered with the same assembly number 52. The right one has Ns. Jacquet under the main spring. It doesn't mean anything, but I didn't know that Francotte also bought locks from Nicolas Jacquet.


I'm still not sure what the forward screws on the other two sidelocks are good for. Is it just for fixing the plates to the action or is there some additional feature behind?

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The locks are made by Nicolas Jacquet, he was the most important lockmaker for the Liège artisans and others of course.
Marc.

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