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Joined: Mar 2010
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Sidelock
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Sidelock

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Interesting!

In the December 2017 Rock Island Auction were a number of guns from the same provenance:
Property of a German Prince, great, great grandchild of Emperor Franz Josef I, Emperor of Austria and King of Hungary.

https://www.rockislandauction.com/detail...ver-combination

https://www.rockislandauction.com/detail...-sporting-rifle

https://www.rockislandauction.com/detail/72/3290/very-rare-and-highly-unusual-german-double-barreled

https://www.rockislandauction.com/detail...l-greiss-hinged

https://www.rockislandauction.com/detail...n-gallery-rifle

https://www.rockislandauction.com/detail...-sporting-rifle

I may have missed some in the listing, and there were some more guns in the following April 2018 auction.
Per description no monograms or other hints to the owner.
All high quality, but not excessively ornate, “working guns” of a wealthy hunter.
All made (or sourced through) well-known Munich gunsmiths, such as Miller & Greis.

But this one hints to its owner Leopold von Bayern

https://www.rockislandauction.com/detail...-service-musket

fuhrmann

Last edited by fuhrmann; 09/16/20 02:33 AM.
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Sidelock
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The "Ludwig" rifle:

https://www.armeemuseum.de/de/45-sammlun...ndergewehr.html

How sad, a German prince sells the guns of his ancestors...!

Wolfgang

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Sidelock
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Sidelock

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Yes, that´s sad!
Those guns should be in the Jagdmuseum in Munich....
https://www.jagd-fischerei-museum.de/

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Sidelock
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Originally Posted By: Gunwolf
Originally Posted By: David Zincavage
It is a prince's crown, but the L is much more likely a surname.


Never with aristocrats you will find the surname, only the first name.


If that shotgun had belonged to a prince from a sovereign ruling house, my suspicion is that it would be considerably posher and more elaborately engraved, and it would bear a full armorial achievement (coat of arms), not simply a prince's crown.

And only princes from ruling houses get called "Prince Personal Name." The non-sovereign prince typically is called "Prince Surname."

There are heaps and piles of non-sovereign families is numerous continental European countries with princely titles. And many are by no means fabulously wealthy.

Last edited by David Zincavage; 09/16/20 08:54 PM.
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Sidelock
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The crown above the L is clearly a royal crown or grand duke's crown.



In all ruling houses, only the first name(s) were used in abbreviated form in the monogram.
In Springer's ledgers it says: "delivered to crown prince Prince Leopold".

The monogram on the gun corresponds to the monograms of Ludwig I and Ludwig II of Bavaria. It was probably also that of Leopold of Bavaria. They belonged to the house of Wittelsbach:



Correspondence Map of Ludwig II:



Even the high nobility did not only carry magnificent guns. On the contrary, the real hunters among them often preferred good utility weapons. A good example is the Ischler Stutzen of the Austrian Emperor Franz Joseph, built by the Ferlach gunsmith Fanzoj.



Cheers,
Wolfgang

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Jtplumb Offline OP
Sidelock
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Sidelock

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That monogram on the map is the exact monogram on said shotgun!
Don’t think that is a coincidence.
Map info must be correct obviously.

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Sidelock
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It is a correspondence folder of King Ludwig II - the one who went crazy and went into the water... He was only 21 years old.

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Sidelock
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It is a correspondence folder of King Ludwig II - the one who went crazy and went into the water... He was only 21 years old.

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