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Jtplumb Offline OP
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Sidelock

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I have 2 16ga Sxs with pigeons engraved on them,both Belgium made around 1920s with tight chokes. Do you guys believe they are actually pigeon guns? Maybe for Youth or women( 14 1/4 thin wrists)? Or just decorated that way like a modern pigeon grade?



Tight chokes .025 .025 .020 .030

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They are not dedicated pigeon guns, IMO. That is just nice decoration. Pigeon guns were 12 bore or larger, no safety, and were stocked high. Too much drop on those to be flyer guns, too.

Recently bought and read Adam's book on pigeon shooting and the guns and ammo used, and I recall nothing that would lead me to believe these are pigeon guns.

Best, SRH


May God bless America and those who defend her.
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Jtplumb Offline OP
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Thanks Stan. I had never heard of sub gauge pigeon gun. Now I know why.

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Stan you can't believe everything you read in a pigeon shooting fantasy book....

No way you can say these weren't pigeon guns.

Pigeon shooting is more about gambling and fast money...

Last I heard not a very Christian thing.

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If Cyril Adams writes something on pigeon shooting you can take it to the bank. I guess if you found a .410 with a gold pigeon on it, it would be a gen-u-ine pigeon gun, eh?

Beside Joe, I said it's only my opinion. Cool ya' jets.

SRH


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Jtplumb Offline OP
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Joe there has been a consensus from multiple sources since I asked the question recently, that these are just a high grade designation.

Last edited by Jtplumb; 10/01/20 08:46 AM.
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Maybe the Good Lord doesn't like gambling and money, but surely He can't get out of sorts about us guys shooting a bunch of airborne poopsters. If He does, I'm on the Highway to Hell- I've shot untold numbers of barn pigeons, and will keep doing so until I can no longer shuck a Model 12.

You might remember, Joseph, that when our Lord and Savior drove the money changers out of the Temple- it wasn't Messers Merrill, Lynch, Pierce, Fenner and Bean he kicked out-- RWTF


"The field is the touchstone of the man"..
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There were rules at some clubs specifying closer rises for sub gauge guns. If they are set up like a target gun it's possible. All the big money shooters seem to have used 12's after 10's were no longer "legal" .

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I am probably going to regret wading in here, but I will take a chance at being told by naysayers that I am full of Crap.
That said I will only print here what I have PERSONAL first hand knowledge of.

Smallbore "Pigeon Guns" did exist, and were seen in limited use in Europe by a small number of competitors , usually women and children.

I have handled several , but will describe two that I am familiar with offhand, one I shot a good bit at game , and one I handled in the presence of its then current owner.

The first was one of only 2 O/U guns in the large collection of fine guns owned by a now deceased American flyer shooter with extensive experience on both sides of the Atlantic. He bought it much for its novelty.
A 20 bore HAMMER O/U (not a misprint) A solid rib 28" tightly choked 6 3/4 to 7 lb. gun with Belgian proofs. Half pistol grip and fairly high dimensions. It bore the name of J.Bartel a franco-belge maker of the period.
I shot the gun a dozen times or so in the field. It was commissioned by the original owner as a gun for his children.

The second was owned and shot for years by one of the Italian women luminaries of the sport. The then owner of the gun showed it to me in the armory at the old club in Bologna in the early 1980's It was a Holland Royal Pigeon gun in 16 gauge and had pigeon gun characteristics that one would find common on a SxS gun used in the European rings of the time, but was a 16 bore.
I am working from an old memory but I believe it was the weapon of choice of Contessa Lea della Gheradesca. If I am mistaken about the shooter , then I believe it may have been Mimma Schreiber, an equally famous women's competitor of the period.
I am going to look at some old pictures if time permits to confirm.

Since Cyril's name came up in this thread, I believe he will recall seeing the Bartel O/U in my possession many years ago.

Delighted in your recovery , Stan.

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Thanks for your input, Paul. I know that you have infinitely more first hand knowledge of the sport than I, and I respect your opinion highly. What I can't understand is the obvious large amounts of drop on these two specific guns, and the safeties.

Thanks for weighing in. I appreciate it.

SRH


May God bless America and those who defend her.
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