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TCN #582991 10/29/20 04:00 PM
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I've opened about four of my Sxss to LM/LM. One hammergun to SK/SK. You should be able to find someone to do the work for you.

TCN #582995 10/29/20 04:34 PM
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Believe what you want.

The man posted the pictures here, circled the holes in the pattern, and counted the strikes. Over and over again to eliminate statistical error.

TCN #582998 10/29/20 05:45 PM
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A sample size big enough to satisfy the brilliant Dr. Jones?

That would seem a tall order.

We've discussed this quite a bit here and opinions vary widely, but I'll amplify briefly and then stand aside for the inevitable hailstorm.

It finally occurred to me, after trying to reconcile the work of past authors and that of Jones The Great, that we are trying to analyze a 3D system with 2D snapshots.

And that's the key. Patterns are snapshots. It a 2D representation of one distance downrange.

The problem is that shotgun pellets do not fly straight. Nothing flies straight, even a sphere, unless in a vacuum and even then its path is bent by any gravity field.

Look through a bag of reclaimed shot sometime and try to imagine any of that flying even remotely straight through the atmosphere at a speed starting near sonic and then decreasing to half that at 40 yards.

The pellets once given an initial vector, do not stay on that path. They travel in a helix, do little whifferdills, arcs, and they slow at various rates. The pellets are moving around inside the shot cloud and the only thing that can be said for sure is that the average diameter of the cloud is expanding.

What you see at 25 yards as voids and patches may look entirely different 5 yards further downrange. The clumps are expanding into the voids, and in doing so likely make different sized voids which are then expanded into.

It defies analysis.

I've come to the conclusion that pattern analysis is limited to the size of the pattern at the measured distance, and any attempt at quantifying the 'quality' of the pattern is just a fools errand.

What you might see on a pattern plate is not what a moving target sees as the shot cloud passes.

My fine condition of copy of Oberfell and Thompson is for sale to the highest bidder. Small bills, in the dead of night, no record kept of the idiot previous owner.


"The price of good shotgunnery is constant practice" - Fred Kimble
TCN #582999 10/29/20 06:06 PM
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Originally Posted By: ClapperZapper
The post or X style wide insert definitely deflects pallets away from the center of the pattern. Creating holes.


I've been shooting the Fiocchi Interceptors for about three years now, regularly, at sporting. I typically use 8-12 spreader rounds on a round, when I'm shooting a course of moderate difficulty, more if it's a softer course with closer stuff. I have patterned them discriminately, because I didn't want to put my confidence in a load that wouldn't deliver. The patterns I have shot at various ranges, 20 yards and under, have not shown any obvious holes, nor detrimental patchiness. And (drum roll), they have the X post in the center.

SRH


"With one foot in the grave ..........and one foot on the pedal, I was born a Rebel" T.P.
TCN #583001 10/29/20 06:39 PM
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I always felt Campbell’s work was definitive. He did enough patterns to show specifically that you will have holes in the pattern. Important enough that he developed the over the top pellet addition to eliminate the likelihood of the hole in the pattern.

I shoot over dogs.

I buried a dog that had pellets in her back.

I’m not shooting spreader shells around dogs.

Campbells determination to develop 99% confidence in a spreader loadWas quite rigorous. Hundreds of patterns. It was all posted here.

I have no idea why some of you wish to perseverate on the matter.

TCN #583003 10/29/20 06:56 PM
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It's easy to tell where your pattern is when you shoot a rabbit target. I've never lost a target when the pellet strikes on the ground showed that my target was inside the pattern. That's good enough for me. As far as shooting 100 patterns per load for determination of value, I personally think that's a little anal.

SRH


"With one foot in the grave ..........and one foot on the pedal, I was born a Rebel" T.P.
TCN #583005 10/29/20 07:49 PM
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I agree that high confidence interval pattern testing is the realm of certain personalities.

I'm glad that Mike did enough work to illustrate there will be holes in the pattern if there is an insert.
And doubly glad he devised a work around.

I'm still working on aiming error.

TCN #583006 10/29/20 07:55 PM
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Originally Posted By: ClapperZapper
I'm glad that Mike did enough work to illustrate there will be holes in the pattern if there is an insert.


I remember Mike well. Enjoyed his postings. I don't have the recall about his posts that you do. Help me out with something .............. how did he explain holes in patterns that were from loads withOUT inserts.

SRH


"With one foot in the grave ..........and one foot on the pedal, I was born a Rebel" T.P.
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Originally Posted By: ClapperZapper


I'm still working on aiming error.


Aren't we all.

I try to get my thinking done here, for better or worse, and not when I'm actually shooting.

The worst thing a shooter can do is think.

I enjoy all the discussions, even with buzz... (choke choke)


"The price of good shotgunnery is constant practice" - Fred Kimble
TCN #583009 10/29/20 08:16 PM
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Originally Posted By: Shotgunjones
I try to get my thinking done here, for better or worse, and not when I'm actually shooting.

The worst thing a shooter can do is think.


Do you shoot sporting clays, or just skeet? Just curious.

SRH


"With one foot in the grave ..........and one foot on the pedal, I was born a Rebel" T.P.
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