September
S M T W T F S
1 2 3 4
5 6 7 8 9 10 11
12 13 14 15 16 17 18
19 20 21 22 23 24 25
26 27 28 29 30
Who's Online Now
3 members (spring, Chad Linder, Jeff L.), 98 guests, and 3 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Statistics
Forums10
Topics36,123
Posts507,524
Members14,078
Most Online462
Aug 5th, 2016
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 1 of 3 1 2 3
#583393 11/05/20 08:07 AM
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 11,365
Likes: 103
Sidelock
**
OP Offline
Sidelock
**

Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 11,365
Likes: 103
From a gunmaker's point of view, why is it an attribute of a best gun that there is no through lump in the floorplate, as opposed to lower quality guns which may show the lower part of the barrel lug through an opening in the floorplate?

Is it because of aesthetics mostly, or has it something to do with fitting? Is it easier to fit up a double with an underlug that is visible through the floorplate?

It certainly looks cleaner when it is hidden above the floorplate, IMO, unless there is some very well executed engraving on and around the lug and opening.

It is interesting that some American makers did not make guns with through lumps and some did. Same for Britain. From what I have seen most Continental makers did, except for their best.

All pertinent opinions welcome but, would any gunmakers/doublegunsmiths please address this?

SRH



"With one foot in the grave ..........and one foot on the pedal, I was born a Rebel" T.P.
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 678
Likes: 2
Sidelock
*
Offline
Sidelock
*

Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 678
Likes: 2
Well, I'm not a gunmaker, nor am I a gunsmith. But, I did have a discussion about through lumps with a Purdey representative at the 2000 Vintage Cup at Orvis Sandanona. We were discussing hammerguns with and without through lumps. The Purdey rep told me that Purdey never did, nor ever would produce a hammergun with through lumps. I asked why, he told me it was a matter of strength, through lumps make for a weaker action.


Wild Skies
Since 1951
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 2,433
Likes: 21
Sidelock
**
Offline
Sidelock
**

Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 2,433
Likes: 21
We must have spoken to the same guy. The man at Purdey's that I spoke to about it said that when the lump swings down into the action floor It was a sign of best craftsmanship that you could fit the lug so tightly there was almost an airtight surrounding of the barrel lump On closing.
If you think about the technology that was being used to produce the early best guns making that square box in the bottom of the action was quite a feat, and a real sign of craftsmanship.
But it's also one more of those best gun treats that you can't actually see either.

Definitely not a case of, "Hey dumbass, When you carve out that blind hole, don't cut all the way through." LOL!

Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 5,632
Likes: 9
Sidelock
***
Offline
Sidelock
***

Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 5,632
Likes: 9
Ithaca added one when they brought out their Magnum-Frame NID in 1932.

Regular Frame --



Magnum Frame --


Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 5,387
Likes: 14
Sidelock
**
Offline
Sidelock
**

Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 5,387
Likes: 14
Originally Posted By: ClapperZapper
We must have spoken to the same guy. The man at Purdey's that I spoke to about it said that when the lump swings down into the action floor It was a sign of best craftsmanship that you could fit the lug so tightly there was almost an airtight surrounding of the barrel lump On closing.
If you think about the technology that was being used to produce the early best guns making that square box in the bottom of the action was quite a feat, and a real sign of craftsmanship.
!


Interesting you should say that. This past weekend a friend's Boucher dumped some powder from a shotshell somehow into the lug mortices when a roll-crimped case came apart. Just a few flakes of powder were enough to prevent the gun from closing and it wasn't a sorta maybe thing. If flat would not go at all and the locking bolt wouldn't even think of swinging shut.

Beware of getting a little grass seed or cattail duff in there.


_________
...never pay Dave "one more dime"
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 3,900
Likes: 6
Sidelock
*
Offline
Sidelock
*

Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 3,900
Likes: 6
Originally Posted By: Researcher
Ithaca added one when they brought out their Magnum-Frame NID in 1932.


That would seem to refute the business about strength.

It does add additional bearing surface to the frame/barrel set interface.

Engineers put lightening holes in just about everything.

Why would a shotgun frame be any different than, say, a bridge when designing for bending load? They don't always make those solid you know...


"The price of good shotgunnery is constant practice" - Fred Kimble
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 11,365
Likes: 103
Sidelock
**
OP Offline
Sidelock
**

Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 11,365
Likes: 103
Originally Posted By: Shotgunjones
Originally Posted By: Researcher
Ithaca added one when they brought out their Magnum-Frame NID in 1932.


That would seem to refute the business about strength.


Wonder why Purdey didn't tell Ithaca about that before they made such a huuuuuge mistake? Must be a big pile of cracked Ithaca Magnum actions somewhere, eh..........

Not!!

SRH


"With one foot in the grave ..........and one foot on the pedal, I was born a Rebel" T.P.
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 3,851
Likes: 19
Sidelock
**
Online Content
Sidelock
**

Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 3,851
Likes: 19
ClapperZapper,
The holes do go all the way through, they are just covered by the bottom plate. Having the lugs go through allows a slightly thinner action, while being strong enough to meet the requirements.
Mike

Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 5,922
Sidelock
***
Offline
Sidelock
***

Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 5,922
IMHO (engineering), this is far more about aesthetic and fashion than about action strength. I am unaware of any stress issues around the barrel to frame joints. If the barrel lugs are circle jointed to the frame, the bulk of the load in firing is straight tinsel on the frame and compression on the lug; both in relatively thick section areas. I don't see any particular strength advantage for either design or the need for any. Note that this is not an area in which even low quality guns fail.

DDA

Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 8,177
Likes: 15
Sidelock
*
Offline
Sidelock
*

Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 8,177
Likes: 15
researcher: extraordinary photos above...

are they digital or 35mm film?


the selling season is here...selective consignments accepted...pm for terms...
Page 1 of 3 1 2 3

Link Copied to Clipboard

doublegunshop.com home | Welcome | Sponsors & Advertisers | DoubleGun Rack | Doublegun Book Rack

Order or request info | Other Useful Information

Updated every minute of everyday!


Copyright (c) 1993 - 2021 doublegunshop.com. All rights reserved. doublegunshop.com - Bloomfield, NY 14469. USA These materials are provided by doublegunshop.com as a service to its customers and may be used for informational purposes only. doublegunshop.com assumes no responsibility for errors or omissions in these materials. THESE MATERIALS ARE PROVIDED "AS IS" WITHOUT WARRANTY OF ANY KIND, EITHER EXPRESS OR IMPLIED, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, THE IMPLIED WARRANTIES OF MERCHANT-ABILITY, FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE, OR NON-INFRINGEMENT. doublegunshop.com further does not warrant the accuracy or completeness of the information, text, graphics, links or other items contained within these materials. doublegunshop.com shall not be liable for any special, indirect, incidental, or consequential damages, including without limitation, lost revenues or lost profits, which may result from the use of these materials. doublegunshop.com may make changes to these materials, or to the products described therein, at any time without notice. doublegunshop.com makes no commitment to update the information contained herein. This is a public un-moderated forum participate at your own risk.

Note: The posting of Copyrighted material on this forum is prohibited without prior written consent of the Copyright holder. For specifics on Copyright Law and restrictions refer to: http://www.copyright.gov/laws/ - doublegunshop.com will not monitor nor will they be held liable for copyright violations presented on the BBS which is an open and un-moderated public forum.

Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5
(Release build 20201027)
Responsive Width:

PHP: 7.0.33-0+deb9u11+hw1 Page Time: 0.043s Queries: 35 (0.019s) Memory: 0.8438 MB (Peak: 1.8991 MB) Data Comp: Off Server Time: 2021-09-24 19:12:16 UTC
Valid HTML 5 and Valid CSS