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#585177 11/24/20 06:47 AM
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Would it be possible to park politics at the door and take personal grievances to PM .
When I am out walking up snipe or woodcock, flighting duck and geese , standing on a drive waiting for the first pheasant or stalking deer if I am with someone else the last topic we would talk about is politics.
It cant be so hard to find a political forum to express your political views and PM is always an option to disagree as strongly as you may like ,lets leave the double gun forum free for double gun topics.
If we could stick to the thread that would be appreciated ie is it possible to park politics at the door and discuss double guns and double gun hunting. A yes or no would be sufficient.

Last edited by Konor3inch; 11/24/20 06:58 AM.
Konor3inch #585180 11/24/20 08:12 AM
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Originally Posted By: Konor3inch
....When I am out walking up snipe or woodcock, flighting duck and geese , standing on a drive waiting for the first pheasant or stalking deer if I am with someone else the last topic we would talk about is politics....

It would be possible to park politics, if people such as yourself would not troll political topics in an antigun fashion? By troll, I specifically mean that you could not possibly have a progun position if it involves an exception for your desires and intollerance of others.

Off the soap box, I thank you for your honesty. Would you waste you time hunting with someone you did not care for? There are not enough cool guns or great hunts in this world to not take advantage of a little forethought?

Konor3inch #585181 11/24/20 08:17 AM
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There are other forums that are moderated and where politics are not allowed. 16 Gauge Society and Upland Journal forums come to mind. Many members here believe simply owning a gun, when gun ownership is under attack, is itself a political act. And because of that, feel the two are inseparable.

This is largely an unmoderated, or very lightly moderated forum. No one here is changing. So get used to it. The upside is there is no better forum to discuss and learn about vintage SxS.

Last edited by canvasback; 11/24/20 08:18 AM.

The world cries out for such: he is needed & needed badly- the man who can carry a message to Garcia
Konor3inch #585182 11/24/20 08:46 AM
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Thank you for replying craigd. In my defence I would say that to state an opposing view is not trolling and that everyone should be free to state an opinion and have it debated , is that not the essence of free speech ?However when the debate drifts to making a characterisation of those that disagree in order to belittle their viewpoint then not only is it juvenile but also tends towards censorship. If your argument is strong enough then censorship is not necessary..
I dont think any time spent hunting is wasted and would gladly spend time hunting with anyone. In fact it could be easily argued that time spent hunting with someone you disagree with is probably more profitable if it leads to you understanding the persons motivation for their beliefs..
I am sure I would be just as able to sincerely congratulate you on a right and left or a good shot on a high flying goose as I would anyone else. I find life too short to spend it doing otherwise.
As I have stated before The American situation is such that to be unarmed is probably not a good choice given the availability of firearms. In Scotland the availability of firearms is low and society as a whole benefits from that. Remember concealed carry was not an option immediately pre hand gun ban. To wish for an
environment where handguns were available here in Scotland after a background check would be detrimental to the country and that is a widely, if not totally , held view in Scotland. My views reflect those beliefs ,if you have an opposing view on firearms ownership and Scotland debate away Im not afraid to read a contrary opinion well argued.

Last edited by Konor3inch; 11/24/20 11:06 AM. Reason: Add immediately
Konor3inch #585186 11/24/20 09:36 AM
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You act as if there was ever an option to be armed for a commonwealth subject, such as yourself. There isnt, never was, and never will be. You were defeated by a crown country, and told how you would live. Long ago. There is no option.
American citizens actually have a choice. We refused to be subjects, and defeated a crown country that would have had us exist as you do.
It wasnt good enough for us. Rights are not given or taken by the crown. They are God given and belong to all men.
All men that put in the effort to retain them, anyway.

Best,
Ted

Konor3inch #585187 11/24/20 09:44 AM
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It shouldn't be necessary, but seems logical to remind you for the umpteenth time that you may not be characterizing 'the American situation' correctly. From a selfish point of view, I am hurt that you did not spellcheck my comment, I know my blinking devices don't.

craigd #585188 11/24/20 09:53 AM
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Originally Posted By: craigd
It shouldn't be necessary, but seems logical to remind you for the umpteenth time that you may not be characterizing 'the American situation' correctly. From a selfish point of view, I am hurt that you did not spellcheck my comment, I know my blinking devices don't.


Not that you've ever got it right, craigd


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Originally Posted By: Ted Schefelbein
You act as if there was ever an option to be armed for a commonwealth subject, such as yourself. There isnt, never was, and never will be. You were defeated by a crown country, and told how you would live. Long ago. There is no option.
American citizens actually have a choice. We refused to be subjects, and defeated a crown country that would have had us exist as you do.
It wasnt good enough for us. Rights are not given or taken by the crown. They are God given and belong to all men.
All men that put in the effort to retain them, anyway.

Best,
Ted

Now we have to defend our country from a Socialist/Communist take over.

Konor3inch #585198 11/24/20 10:28 AM
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Originally Posted By: Konor3inch
Thank you for replying craigd. In my defence I would say that to state an opposing view is not trolling and that everyone should be free to state an opinion and have it debated , is that not the essence of free speech ?However when the debate drifts to making a characterisation of those that disagree in order to belittle their viewpoint then not only is it juvenile but also tends towards censorship. If your argument is strong enough then censorship is not necessary..
I dont think any time spent hunting is wasted and would gladly spend time hunting with anyone. In fact it could be easily argued that time spent hunting with someone you disagree with is probably more profitable if it leads to you understanding the persons motivation for their beliefs..
I am sure I would be just as able to sincerely congratulate you on a right and left or a good shot on a high flying goose as I would anyone else. I find life too short to spend it doing otherwise.
As I have stated before The American situation is such that to be unarmed is probably not a good choice given the availability of firearms. In Scotland the availability of firearms is low and society as a whole benefits from that. Remember concealed carry was not an option pre hand gun ban. To wish for an
environment where handguns were available here in Scotland after a background check would be detrimental to the country and that is a widely, if not totally , held view in Scotland. My views reflect those beliefs ,if you have an opposing view on firearms ownership and Scotland debate away Im not afraid to read a contrary opinion well argued.


I dare say you Scots have never had the crime problem we have had here due to the racial component that is expanded upon in this piece. Try to open your eyes and mind to what Scotland has never seen and why private ownership of a sidearm here is a tad more important than there. But it isn't totally a racial problem. We just happen to have many freedoms that allow criminals to prosper and the populace's need of a means to rely on for their defense of life, liberty and property other than the tardy policeman:

The Black Dilemma

"For almost 150 years the United States has been conducting an interesting experiment. The subjects of the experiment: black people and working-class whites.

The hypothesis to be tested: Can a people taken from the jungles of Africa and forced into slavery be fully integrated as citizens in a majority white population?

The whites were descendants of Europeans who had created a majestic civilization. The former slaves had been tribal peoples with no written language and virtually no intellectual achievements. Acting on a policy that was not fair to either group, the government released newly freed black people into a white society that saw them as inferiors. America has struggled with racial discord ever since.

Decade after decade the problems persisted but the experimenters never gave up. They insisted that if they could find the right formula the experiment would work, and concocted program after program to get the result they wanted. They created the Freedmans Bureau, passed civil rights laws, tried to build the Great Society, declared War on Poverty, ordered race preferences, built housing projects, and tried midnight basketball.

Their new laws intruded into peoples lives in ways that would have been otherwise unthinkable. They called in National Guard troops to enforce school integration. They outlawed freedom of association. Over the protests of parents, they put white children on buses and sent them to black schools and vice-versa. They tried with money, special programs, relaxed standards, and endless hand wringing to close the achievement gap. To keep white backlash in check they began punishing public and even private statements on race. They hung up Orwellian public banners that commanded whites to Celebrate Diversity! and Say No to Racism. Nothing was off limits if it might salvage the experiment.

Some thought that what W.E.B. DuBois called the Talented Tenth would lead the way for black people. A group of elite, educated blacks would knock down doors of opportunity and show the world what blacks were capable of.

There is a Talented Tenth. They are the black Americans who have become entrepreneurs, lawyers, doctors and scientists. But ten percent is not enough. For the experiment to work, the ten percent has to be followed by a critical mass of people who can hold middle-class jobs and promote social stability. That is what is missing.

Through the years, too many black people continue to show an inability to function and prosper in a culture unsuited to them. Detroit is bankrupt, the south side of Chicago is a war zone, and the vast majority of black cities all over America are beset by degeneracy and violence. And blacks never take responsibility for their failures. Instead, they lash out in anger and resentment.

Across the generations and across the country, as we have seen in Detroit, Watts, Newark, Los Angeles, Cincinnati, and now Ferguson, rioting and looting are just one racial incident away. The white elite would tell us that this doesn't mean the experiment has failed. We just have to try harder. We need more money, more time, more understanding, more programs, and more opportunities.

But nothing changes no matter how much money is spent, no matter how many laws are passed, no matter how many black geniuses are portrayed on TV, and no matter who is president. Some argue its a problem of culture, as if culture creates peoples behavior instead of the other way around. Others blame white privilege.

But since 1965, when the elites opened Americas doors to the Third World, immigrants from Asia and India, people who are not white, not rich, and not connected have quietly succeeded. While the children of these people are winning spelling bees and getting top scores on the SAT, black youths are committing half the country's violent crime, which includes viciously punching random white people on the street for the thrill of it that has nothing to do with poverty.

The experiment has failed. Not because of white culture, or white privilege, or white racism. The fundamental problem is that American black culture has evolved into an un-fixable and crime ridden mess. *They do not want to change their culture or society, and expect others to tolerate their violence and amoral behavior. They have become socially incompatible with other races by their own design, not because of the racism of others - but by their own hatred of non-blacks.*

Our leaders don't seem to understand just how tired their white subjects are with this experiment. *They don't understand that white people aren't out to get black people; they are just exhausted with them. They are exhausted by the social pathologies, the violence, the endless complaints, and the blind racial solidarity, the bottomless pit of grievances, the excuses, and the reflexive animosity.* The elites explain everything with racism, and refuse to believe that white frustration could soon reach the boiling point."---

"You can't legislate the poor into freedom by legislating the wealthy out of freedom. What one person receives without working for, another person must work for without receiving. The government can't give to anybody anything that the government doesn't first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they don't have to work because the other half is going to take care of them, and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for, that my dear friend, is about the end of any nation.
You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it."
JR


Be strong, be of good courage.
God bless America, long live the Republic.
John Roberts #585201 11/24/20 10:32 AM
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Some would call that being a Racist....

I call it just a fact of life.

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