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Joined: Jun 2010
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I bought an AYA No. 2 about six years ago at Cabella's. It was made in 1995. The first time I had it out, it misfired from the second barrel and on a grouse coming straight towards me. It turned out that the firing pins were not hardened properly, if at all. The repaired gun was returned with the original pins which looked like back dog legs. I am guessing that is the reason why the gun was sold by the previous owner. It now has hardened pins and was also stripped and cleaned in the process. The gunsmith (Jim Eyster) said it look almost perfect, internally. I have had no problems with the No. 2 since then.

I am really not a fan of Spanish guns but I will say that is a beautiful gun to shoot and carry: 28 bore, 28 in. tubes and with my exact stocking dimensions. Those dimensions, along with its weight of 5 1/2 pounds (most are 6 pounds, or more in 28 bore) are what induced me to buy the gun in the first place. A great bird gun, overall, for the money ($4K, plus $130 for new pins and cleaning).

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Back in the 70`s a friend bought a Gunmark Sabel 25" sidelock which I believe was a Garbi build.That gun was the most reliable s/side that I`ve ever known,it was used for regular clay shooting,game,wildfowling with heavy shells (not ideal!) and just did the business.The owner has now departed us but it was still going strong last I heard.There are good and bad in most things........

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I ordered a Arrieta back in 1990 that was plagued with soft metal. That experience cancelled any interest I had in Spanish guns.

I shoot skeet with a couple of fellows who shoot Garbi guns and have no problems with them. I see some nice looking Spanish guns for sale at attractive prices. I am starting to reconsider my attitude concerning these guns. I suppose even with the cost of putting them right I still could be money ahead compared guns manufactured elsewhere. Would be a hassle though and destroy my confidence in the gun. Not sure if I can get over my bias.

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Originally Posted by halifax
I bought an AYA No. 2 .... It turned out that the firing pins were not hardened properly, if at all....

Spain has no monopoly on this.

I have first hand experience that Krieghoff cannot make firing pins that last. They crater, get sharp, and pierce primers. Krieghoff blames the primers.

Buddy of mine has an ICD that cost him a small fortune. The pins were brittle and failed within a year.

The only Spanish made gun I have currently was made by Ugartechea in the early 1970's. It has never misfired and has the original firing pins. The triggers are good.

The worst internals I've ever seen in a shotgun not surprisingly belonged to a Huglu 'GI Special' that some unfortunate soldier brought back from a tour in the sandbox. The gun is unserviceable as delivered and cannot be fixed.

Don't bash Turkish guns here though, you will hear what a great value they represent and how much they've improved recently under the Erdogan regime.

Yet, the universal Spanish gun 'soft metal' problems from 50 years ago are still regarded as fact.

Last edited by Shotgunjones; 01/23/21 12:25 PM.

"The price of good shotgunnery is constant practice" - Fred Kimble
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I've passed up some Spanish doubles at very cheap prices because of this bad reputation. But it's hard to believe that they are all bad, and that every Spanish gunmaker was unaware of the importance of hardening and tempering critical action parts.

The only Spanish double I own is a 1970's vintage I. Ugartechea Falcon 12 ga. with 3" chambers. A guy was walking it around a gun show several years ago, and I made him a very lowball offer when he offered to sell it to me. To my surprise, he took my offer.

I have never had any reason to look inside the action, and it has been totally reliable in the hundreds of times that I have fired it. I use it around the house to shoot grackles and starlings. It comes in handy to digest higher velocity and higher pressure shells that I would not want to use in any of my old vintage doubles. Unlike a lot of cheap Spanish or Turkish guns, the engraving does not look like it was done by a beaver with carbide teeth. The frame is bone charcoal color case hardened, so they must have known a little something about heat treatment processes. Wood to metal fit, finish, and the cut checkering is decent too. I'm not fond of the beavertail forend, and the fairly sharp comb on the buttstock gets your attention a bit when you fire magnum loads. But other than that, I have zero complaints.


A true sign of mental illness is any gun owner who would vote for an Anti-Gunner like Joe Biden.

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The only Spanish guns I’ve owned that needed some metal work were AyA’s. Good grade guns too and all brand new, 1 owners. First was a AyA 4/53 that the forend iron developed a crack. Second was a small bore #2 with rounded bar that the ejector broke on its second outing. 3rd was another #2 that developed really bad firing pin drag, come to find out the left tumbler was also peened and misshapen. All 3 went back to NECG (warranty center at the time) and all 3 were repaired at no cost to me. I sold them soon after they were repaired. I just lost that loving feeling I suppose.
Oddly enough....the cheaper Ugartechea Model 30’s (Parker Hale & ACT imports) I owned....none of those cheap guns ever developed any issues. Same with a really nice, 1960’s vintage best grade Victor Sarasquetta that I bought from Thad Scott a really long time ago...no issues at all with that piece and I shot the hell out of that gun.

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The first sxs I owned was a 12 gauge Falcon that I got in 1968. My uncle won it in a raffle and I thought it was beautiful, so I talked him into trading it to me for a High Standard 20 gauge pump.

It fit me well and I had my first really successful wing shooting hunts with it. I used it in the rain and the case coloring washed off of it, then the finish on the stock came off. The gold triggers lost all their gold.

My mother helped me refinish the wood and it looked halfway decent again, and then it started misfiring. My dad carried it to one gunsmith who said the metal was too soft and he refused to work on it. Another gunsmith did try, had the same complaint, but did try to fix it. I got it back one night during turkey season, and was going hunting before school the next morning. I was happy to leave the old Stevens single shot at home and carry my gun, but didn't have a chance to test fire it.

I heard a turkey gobble on the roost, got in good position, and made a soft call. The gobbler must have been lonely. He immediately flew about 200 yds and lit about 20 steps from me before I realized what was happening. I had never seen one respond like that. I raised the gun to shoot him and flipped off the safety as I shouldered it. Both barrels went off and the gun busted my lip. The turkey flew away unharmed. Maybe the worst thing was that we had a high school baseball game that afternoon and I played first base. Every player who got on base for the other team wanted to know what happened to my lip, so I had to tell the story over and over.

I never fired my gun again. Over the years, I carried it to several different gunsmiths and none of them were able to make it work. I told the last one that I would spend any amount necessary to make my gun work again. He said no parts were available that would fit it, but a machinist might could make some. I had a friend who was a machinist and he tried to fix it and kind of lost interest. Then he was killed in a car wreck, and I never found out what happened to my gun.

In no way would I say that all Spanish guns of that era had problems, but that one did. 50 years later, I still have nightmares about that gun. A turkey or deer is in range, but my gun won't shoot. After reading this thread, I'll probably have it tonight. Thanks a lot!
smile

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My hunting partner bought a used Uggie model 30 imported by Precision Sports. He shot a couple of rounds of sporting clays with the gun and then pheasant season opened up. The right barrel didn't fire at the first pheasant that got up in front of him. He sent the gun to Cole Haugh and was told the firing pins were soft. Cole worked on it and sent it back, but it would fire when the gun was closed. The gun went back and Cole fixed it. However, he wouldn't trust that gun and sold it. He did buy a Garbi Model 100 sidelock and never had a problem with the Garbi.

Ken

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Originally Posted by KY Jon
I recall back in the 70's or early 80's that Spanish made doubles got a bad reputation for having parts made with steel which had not been hardened properly. The gun with POS intials, Pride of Spain, was one of the worst examples. Sears of butter is how they were described. One gunsmith I knew used a POS 20 bore as a donor gun to make a .444 hog killing, double rifle. As I recall he had to go over all the internals and rework them and harden them properly. Was it just the POS line or were other makers like AYA having the same problems?

Are you looking to buy an AyA, Jon?

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Originally Posted by Dave Erickson
What brand did Haugh import?

Uggies. He told me about rehardening the bits of everything Spanish that comes in after he went through mine.

I have a Falcon also. It is not a bragging rights gun, few of mine are, but, that doesn’t bother me in the rain, or snow. The stock fit to the metal could be better. But, it works when I use it. Not sure if I would have had issues had Cole not seen to the gun 1971 vintage, if I recall correctly, but, it had been in regular use a long time before I got it, and decided the White Line pad had to go.

I seem to have more days where I don’t want a really nice gun along, anytime a lab is along I’ll have something not worth a bunch of money to me. If a gun is going to have a dog’s leg lifted on it, it seems like it will be a lab that does it. They don’t care what kind of gun it is.

Best,
Ted

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