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Marks_21 #591359 02/03/21 12:46 PM
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Donald Dallas’ book “Alexander Henry Rifle Maker” describes Henry and his employee Daniel Fraser taking out Patent number 1559 on 21st April 1877 for the unorthodox stock to be used in the back position popularised by Farquarson in the 1860s. He states “ The Henry two position rifle is very rare with only twenty four such pieces being recorded in the dimensions book. It will be encountered in both muzzle and breech loading form “
“It seems likely that the unorthodox style of rifle was not permitted in British competitions as most examples were sold abroad to South Africa,India and Australia”
A South African agent Albert P Walshe of Kimberley bought 16 of the two position rifles built.
The original patent is illustrated with a straight hand stock and no cutaway under the comb to accommodate the shoulder but rifle number 5298 built for Albert P Walshe is built as per the illustrations posted earlier and as it appears in Alexander Henry’s for the two position rifle in 1878.
It’s price in 1878 was £30 with sights complete

Konor3inch #591361 02/03/21 01:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Konor3inch
Donald Dallas’ book “Alexander Henry Rifle Maker” describes Henry and his employee Daniel Fraser taking out Patent number 1559 on 21st April 1877 for the unorthodox stock to be used in the back position popularised by Farquarson in the 1860s. He states “ The Henry two position rifle is very rare with only twenty four such pieces being recorded in the dimensions book. It will be encountered in both muzzle and breech loading form “
“It seems likely that the unorthodox style of rifle was not permitted in British competitions as most examples were sold abroad to South Africa,India and Australia”
A South African agent Albert P Walshe of Kimberley bought 16 of the two position rifles built.
The original patent is illustrated with a straight hand stock and no cutaway under the comb to accommodate the shoulder but rifle number 5298 built for Albert P Walshe is built as per the illustrations posted earlier and as it appears in Alexander Henry’s for the two position rifle in 1878.
It’s price in 1878 was £30 with sights complete

I seem to remember that there were only 2 or 3 examples known today. I may be misremembering however. In any event, it was a cool rifle to handle. I don't know of any rule that would prevent it from being used historically in Creedmoor shooting, and it would be allowed today. The rifle I examined, however, was not shot at the match. Just brought for show and tell along with 40+ other vintage long-range muzzleloaders (mostly Henrys and Rigbys).

For those that are interested, the Creedmoor 150 is an annual match that is leading up to the 150th anniversary match of the original international match that was held on Creed's Moor, Long Island in 1874. We shoot prone unsupported and many of us are converting to the prone back position so these types of rifles are interesting. Cartridge guns are allowed, but only Remington Rollers and Sharps '74s as they were the only cartridge guns at the original match.


_________
...never pay Dave "one more dime"
BrentD #591365 02/03/21 01:47 PM
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The stock seems to be "let in" for a double barrel( shotgun or rifle?), so I opine it was a "crossover" stock rather than for "back position" match shooting.
Mike

Der Ami #591371 02/03/21 03:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Der Ami
The stock seems to be "let in" for a double barrel( shotgun or rifle?), so I opine it was a "crossover" stock rather than for "back position" match shooting.
Mike


And the purpose of the two triggers would be ??
Donald Dallas’ book has pictures of the patents ,adverts and examples of the rifle along with the patent number and a full explanation of the stocks use.
I haven’t been so fortunate as BrentD to see one of the rifles in the flesh but I’m quite sure that the stock would be of no use as a crossover. I have a friend who shoots a John Dickson and Son round action cross stock along with a William Evans and a Webley none of which remotely resemble this two position rifle stock.

Last edited by Konor3inch; 02/03/21 04:06 PM. Reason: Addition
lagopus #591372 02/03/21 04:15 PM
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Originally Posted by lagopus
Used for shooting in the back position which is often used in target shooting past 1,000 yards. Konor will perhaps know the Glen Tilt range on the Atholl Estate in Scotland no doubt. I think that goes back to 1,200 yards although I have only shot it back to 1,000. Only range I know of where shooting is suspended to let deer across or if low flying aircraft come screaming down the Glen. Great spot! Lagopus…..

I know of it but have never shot on it. My rifle shooting is confined to short range stalking roe now. Once the travel restrictions are eased though I can see myself being a bit more adventurous and making the effort to experience a wider range of sporting opportunities.Walked up grouse would be at the front of the queue along with some form of MacNab.

Konor3inch #591384 02/03/21 06:37 PM
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Konor3inch,
Go back to Mark21's first posting and click on his link, I didn't see two triggers. BrentD's photo, on the other hand was not of the stock in question; is was indeed for "back position" shooting of a rifle.
Mike

Der Ami #591385 02/03/21 07:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Der Ami
Konor3inch,
Go back to Mark21's first posting and click on his link, I didn't see two triggers. BrentD's photo, on the other hand was not of the stock in question; is was indeed for "back position" shooting of a rifle.
Mike

Sorry Mike my apologies I hadn’t clicked on the first link I thought it strange that you should think BrentDs photo was a crossover stock.I think it likely that the first picture could be a central vision stock or perhaps a crossover stock as you say.

Last edited by Konor3inch; 02/03/21 07:33 PM. Reason: Addition
Konor3inch #591414 02/04/21 11:33 AM
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Konor3inch,
There is no need to apologize, it was easy to miss.
Mike

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