doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Ithaca Crass Production Totals

[ Do we continue to lump the earliest Hammerless models (stamped NEW ITHACA GUN), as Crass? They are somewhat different.]

They are but clearly there were transition guns being built and the earliest hammerless Ithaca patents were from Leroy Smith and Charles Pierce not Frederick Crass. However, since tradition attributes the model to Frederick Crass (and since he was “...a skilled machinist and model maker...”) I guess we do, too, until something turns up that gives us a better understanding of those earliest models.


[Are there any 4 screw Crass models or any 5 screw Lewis examples?]

John, remember I said to Lloyd, “...the Crass is a very interesting model (with proportional addictive properties).” This whole pin issue if one of the reasons it is. To answer your 4 pin/screw question, yes, there are. On p. 280 of the 2nd edition there is a picture of an unstocked very early hammerless frame (#7859) that appears to be a 4 pin example. The photo clarity is not good enough to say that definitely, but since the 1888 catalog contains an illustration of a 4 pin model I think we can safely say that there were some. Additionally, hammerless is spelled “hammerles” on the frame. Another, “wonder why.”

In addition, some early guns had 6 pins (there is a picture of one on page 40 of both the first and the second edition books and several more in the addendum of the 2nd edition.). And if that isn't interesting enough, besides the 5 and 4 pin versions there are examples of both 3 and 2 pin models! Apparently, Ithaca was continuously working on refining the hammerless “Crass” design.

And as for a 5 pin Lewis. Let’s save that discussion for another thread.

Daryl, you are certainly right. Your Grade 5 “...is hard to beat in decoration or condition.”
Thanks for sharing it with us.

Uploaded for Doc - his 10ga Grade 2 Crass with 30" damascus barrels. The serial number indicates that it was made during the "black hole" period when Ithaca serial number records are lost. Extrapolating from the known starting serial number in 1889 and using Livermore's production notebook numbers it likely was made in December of 1890.

Hi there! I know this is an older thread, but I believe I have one of the “black hole” shotguns you speak of. It’s serial number 144**.. it’s a grade 4 12 gauge with beautifully intricate engravings all over with a gold inlaid pointer dog on the trigger guard and a gold badge inlaid on the stock. I will attach pictures as soon as I figure how lol.Ithaca Crass 1891 Grade 4

14471 is certainly higher than a No. 4. With those sculpted breech balls, the wings on the barrels and the quality of the engraving, more likely a No. 6 or No. 7. The 4 marking on the watertable is strange.

Researcher,

#14471 is most certainly a Quality 4 gun as marked. Looking back there were three distinct frame types within the CRASS model Ithaca Hammerless guns. The Quality 3 guns in the 1st frame style also had sculpted breeches, wings, and a generous amount of engraving. A Quality 4 or 5 may have been the top end gun at that time period.

John

this may help...


https://diamondgunsmithing.com/VSN.html

There’s about 10,000 serial numbers missing in the records between ~7000-17000.

Welcome JF. The best that I’ve been able to find is that #10534 is the last extant number in the remaining records for August of 1889 and then #17235 is the first in January of 1892.