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Sidelock
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Sidelock
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Likely sourced from wR - appearances can be deceptive. In DGJ winter 2020 the excellent article by Terry Deem on Pittsburg Firearms Co. shows a Westley Richards design A&D that I would have said emerged from their factory, at least as an action, BUT on dismantling has the hidden marking of R. ELLIS MAKER BIRM M.
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SKB |
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Sidelock
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Sidelock
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Good info, you do not see many C-bolt top lever guns that did not start out life at the WR factory, it is nice to learn about Mr. Ellis.
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Sidelock
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Sidelock
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We've discussed Westley Richards and their authorization for others to manufacture their patents under license before. It's not difficult to do. There is evidence that Reilly both sold Westley Richards guns and made them under license himself: https://www.doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=569479(You'll recall that in 1881 census, Reilly employed 5 times as many workers as Purdey and 60% more than Greener and had an estimated three times the manufacturing space of Greener and 4 times that of Purdey). The WR patents and their licenses and patents are quite interesting. However, apropos this line on whether big bore rifles used the Scott gas-check patent during the black-powder era after Feb 1882, it looks like they did not. This could well be another identifier for post Feb 1882 black powder guns that may have been converted to shotguns later on. The Reilly I saw at The Southern that provoked this query 1833...I believe was made in the mid 1880's as a big bore rifle, was rebarreled after May 1904 as a shotgun. The weight, stock, barrel length and lines hint at this...the lack of the gas check patent reinforces the conclusion. Harry's 8 bore likewise. The question remains of course...."Why gas-check on shotguns and not on big-bore rifles at the time?"
Last edited by Argo44; 05/01/21 08:56 PM.
Baluch are not Brahui, Brahui are Baluch
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Sidelock
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Sidelock
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Gene,
If you can lay your hands on a copy of Wal Winfer’s Volume 8 British Single shot rifles you will find at pages 299 to 300 photos of a Scott built double Holland and Holland rifle in .360x 2 1/4 “ Express. It is fitted with the patent gas checks and bears a patent use number.
I know this was not a “ big bore” but it goes at least some way towards answering your question,
Keep Well,
Parabola
Last edited by Parabola; 05/13/21 07:25 AM. Reason: Clarification
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Sidelock
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Sidelock
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I have pictures of a Parker Bros. Grade-6 12 gauge T/A hammer gun with the Scott patented gas check system but I haven't been able to post pictures on this forum.
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Sidelock
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Sidelock
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Well, I knew somebody would turn something up. I can think of half a dozen reasons why a mid 1880's big bore SxS rifle doesn't have the gas check....but the invention was so logical and its advantages so well understood and demonstrated that one would think all guns after 1882 would have used it. Of course, nothing of the sort ever happens. Still...would like to see that pic DAM...I'll send you a PM....if you email me the pic, I'll post it.
One more of my half-baked, cockymanie theories may be put to rest. Still, there's a lot of big bores out there that do not have that patent for some reason.
Last edited by Argo44; 05/13/21 07:44 PM.
Baluch are not Brahui, Brahui are Baluch
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Sidelock
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Sidelock
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Argo44 - I sent you a couple of pictures via the email you sent me. It may have gone to your spam folder.
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Sidelock
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Sidelock
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Images: Now what was the date of the Parker? For some reason I always thought the gas-check was really aimed at black powder. That 12 bore is a rifle...right?
Last edited by Argo44; 05/13/21 10:10 PM.
Baluch are not Brahui, Brahui are Baluch
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DAM16SXS |
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Sidelock
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Sidelock
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No, in fact it is a 12 gauge shotgun manufactured in 1886, most definitely a black powder gun, and was shipped to a wealthy gentleman in Cleveland OH who shipped ore on the Great Lakes. He was a competitive live pigeon shooter and duck hunter.
Parker Bros. did not cut the Scott's patented gas check system on the breech face, it was more likely done by Cleveland gunsmith and gunmaker J. Prechtel.
Thanks for posting my pictures. I hope it was beneficial to those who had never seen it before. I have seen a couple of variations of this system but not markedly so.
Last edited by DAM16SXS; 05/14/21 10:46 AM.
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Sidelock
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Sidelock
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Thanks. The theory proposed is that for some reason the Scott Gas Check patent was not used on big bore rifles on the period. Thus far not a single big-bore rifle with the patent has surfaced other than the rifle Parabola mentioned. So, still looking.
(By 1896 that UK patent was ready to expire - 14 years; wonder if they took out a different patent in USA. Would be nice to see the stamp for the record).
Last edited by Argo44; 05/15/21 09:42 PM.
Baluch are not Brahui, Brahui are Baluch
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