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Mar 29th, 2024
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Argo44 Offline OP
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In the upcoming Holt's auction this Reilly stock/action/fore-end is advertised. I posted this on the Reilly line, which few read, and sent the info to Holt's which doesn't much care. But.....the sale is part of a pair and it deserves to be put back with its extant gun:

=============================================================
-- 35422, 35423; reuniting a pair? earliest extent Reilly's with 295 Oxford Street on the rib.
-- Was a "pair" always an indication of "upper-end"?


(Thanks to Ivanhoe for calling this to my attention). The following listing is on Holt's July 1, sealed bid auction:
https://auctions.holtsauctioneers.c...++6027+&refno=++161948&saletype=
THE STOCK, ACTION & FORE-END ONLY OF AN E.M. REILLY & CO. 12-BORE BOXLOCK EJECTOR, serial no. 35422, circa 1910
Estimate £15-25

I have seen this stock/forarm/action auctioned several years ago at Scotarms. It is a significant gun per the below messages I've sent to Holt's. (Holt's usually ignores my emails unless they can make money from them). smile

Sirs: I am a Reilly historian; I've corresponded with you several times. In reference to your July 1 auction, the Stock, forearm, action of Reilly SN 35422, originally auctioned a few years ago on Scotarms...is the #1 gun of a pair. #2 -35423 exists. It was subject of the below auction. You may wish to so advertise....it's quite interesting and thus it may be possible to reunite the pair.

http://stonehengearms.co.uk/shotguns/
E.M. REILLY LONDON BOX LOCK EJECTOR
Number 2 of a pair this boxlock ejector has 30" barrels, 2 1/2" chambers and is nitro proofed.The bores are free from pitting and are choked at 1/2 and 3/4. the reach is 15 1/8". Although there is little engraving or embellishment on this gun, it is a gun of good quality. The game rib is engraved with " E.M. Reilly & Co" and the address of 295 Oxford Street in London. This was the address used from 1904 to 1911. There is a vacant escutcheon on the underside of the straight hand stock. The serial number is 35423 if anyone out there has or know of the matching gun to make a pair.

[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

One more thing about this gun 35422 and the understanding of the pair.. 35423 is the earliest known extant Reilly with "295 Oxford Street" on its rib. Reilly moved from 277 Oxford Street in March 1903. The first advertisement found for 295 Oxford Street is May 1904. I don't know why it took a year to refound the company at its new site but that pretty well dates 35422 and its pair 35423 as between March 1903 and May 1904.

One more observation: One always assumes that a "pair" was made for aristocracy..i.e. - someone was carrying the second gun to load it and allow for easy access by the shooter. Correspondingly, one thus assumes the guns were upper-end. Well, these guns are plain-Janes....Why would "Tommy" "the Captain in some regiment" buy a pair of plain-Jane SxS shotguns? India maybe? (Or as speculated two years ago, perhaps Reilly had stocks of unsold guns and began selling two guns as a "pair" at a discounted price).


Baluch are not Brahui, Brahui are Baluch
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Argo44,
I've always found the folks at Holts' to be very helpful. When I have offered information on provenance, they have been welcoming.
If my understanding of their process is correct, the people you're corresponding with don't have access to the 'sealed bid' items until
the main sale has been completed. Then it's a 'dash to the finish' -- hundreds of guns to prepare for sale and no shortage of 'condition
requests' requiring responses.

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Argo44 Offline OP
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Thanks Steve and you are right..I've had some good exchanges with Holt's people but the trend is a bit "spotty."


Baluch are not Brahui, Brahui are Baluch
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I know next to nothing about the English gun trade and less about its laws, but this is interesting.

If I understand Holt's advertisement, the barrels of No. 1 are out of proof and can be sold only if cut so that they are unusable unless sleeved. The buyer would purchase only the stock, fore end and action at auction, and would have to purchase the cut barrels separately. Then the purchaser would have the barrels sleeved and proofed. At the same time, he would purchase the No. 2 gun and have its barrels blacked to match the No. 1 gun. The wood on both guns is well worn and could stand recheckering and refinishing. All this could run to a bit of money, but something quite unique would come of it.

It would be interesting to know for whom the pair was made. Perhaps the guns were made for a younger son, who had the introductions to society and the invitations to driven shoots but not the income to go first cabin. Guns and cartridges could be managed, but engraving had to wait. Then he failed to return from the Great War, his widow gave one gun each to his sons, and Nos. 1 & 2 went their separate ways.


Caution: Hunting and fishing stories told here. Protective footgear may be required.
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Nice story, but knowing what I learned from working on the edge of the gun trade for many years, it is more likely that a dealer, acquiring this pair, split them up, as this quality, sold separately, would make more profit! Sadly, this happened tp many pairs, as game & wildfowling no longer became the preserve of the well to do.............and your working man could not afford (and probably did not need) a pair of guns.

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Argo44 Offline OP
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The barrels definitely are not with this Stock/action/fore-end 35422. The grouping was originally sold some years ago on Scotarms:
http://www.scotarms.co.uk/catalogues/701.htm
Lot No. 133 The action stock and forend of a 12 bore double barrelled boxlock ejector shotgun by E.M.Reilly & Co. Serial No.35422. Grade 3 plus. FAA Category: RFD

I sent a note to Hotl's - no response. I also sent a note to Stonehengearms who sold 35423. No response.


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The RFD listing at Scotarms may indicate that whilst only the stock, action and forend were being sold the out of proof barrels still existed and could be collected by a Registered Firearms Dealer for re-proofing (if viable) or re-sleeving.

The Proof houses have tightened up as they feared that out of Proof guns were being exported, and for many years have insisted the out of proof barrels accompanying stocks, action and forends are notched at 9 inches from the breech so that they are only fit for sleeving.

If there is enough metal in the tubes a vendor could always opt to ask a gunsmith to re-bore and re-proof a gun so that if it passes proof it can be sold intact.

If the original barrels are missing from the stock action and forend the the auction house will normally make this clear by stating “only” or “barrels not available”.

There are many re-sleeved box locks, and not a few side locks, on the market at present which can be bought for much less than and often a fraction of the present cost of re-sleeving.

As the value of side by sides has dwindled, and the cost of sleeving has escalated, there are very few guns now financially worth re-sleeving .

Lady Meux’s 28 bore Purdey bar in the wood hammer gun being a notable exception.

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I have been trying to bid on a gun at Holts but the system won't recognize my password and using the reset link just sends you into an endless loop of rejected passwords. They have not responded to four different emails over the course of a week, then I noticed that they suggest their own password; that doesn't work either. SKB kindly suggested clearing cookies and browsing history, but that didn't help.

I finally created a new account today with a different email address and submitted a bid, but have no idea if the new account will be authorized in time.

Helluva way to do business, must be due to covid.

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The Proof House fears are well founded.....not just a few, but hundreds of out of proof guns were exported! Many countries did not have Proof Laws, so it was relatively easy for this to happen. Until the 90,s, it was common practice to be "given" the barrels if you purchased the forend, stock & actions, especially if you were in the gun trade. The rules were tightened, and the Proof House required out of proof barrels to be cut, but many were not! Between 1976, and 2006, my two dealer friends and I experienced this at almost every auction sale. If the auctioneer knew you were trade, you got the barrels uncut, if not then they had to be cut.

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Hi Gene, more Reillys coming through...


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