doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion Classic & Custom Single Barreled Sporting Rifles @ doublegunshop.com Relationship of cast-off and cheekpiece

I’m trying to understand the relationship between cast-off and cheekpieces, so I’m looking for input. I’m building a stock for a bolt action rifle that will primarily be used with open sights (peep on the rear, blade on the front), but it will sometimes be used with a scope. I’m building it in the style of this Minar rifle: http://www.finegunmaking.com/page32/page46/page46.html

I have a pretty good understanding of how comb height and eye alignment differ between open sights and scopes, so the stock will be shaped with a nod towards open sights. I’m inclined to include some amount of cast-off in the buttstock. I’ve read that cast-off works in tandem with a cheekpiece (the Minar rifle has a cheekpiece), but I also see a lot of shotguns with cast-off and no cheekpiece. So my question is this: for a rifle stock that will be used primarily with open sights, and occasionally a scope, would cast-off be wise, and if so, should the cast-off be accompanied by a cheekpiece? I welcome input and opinions on this. Thank you!

IMO the cheekpiece is largely decoration. The last three rifles I have had stocked I specified NO cheekpiece and the cast, drop and LOP dimensions. I am happy with the results.

Cast off is measured from a line drawn through the bore of the barrel to the comb of the stock. If the cheek piece does not extend to the comb, it has no effect. If the cheek piece does extend to the comb (a "roll over" cheekpiece), then it in effect becomes the comb for the purpose of measurement.

Cast-Off (Right hand shooter ) is the amt that the butt plate is displaced to the right of the center line of the butt of the stock.
That centerline of the butt is in line with the bore of the rifle.
A straight line can be drawn from the tang of the action in line w/ the bore,,all the way to the heel of the stock along the comb, then down the flat of the butt of the stock.

Placing the butt plate on that line on the butt portion of the stock gives you no Cast -Off.

Move the butt plate any amt to the right of that line and you have Cast Off for a right hand shooter.
CastOff allows many (not every one) to more easily sight the gun, to get their eye in place comfortably behind the sights.
The rifles sights,,your right eye, your right shoulder, your face/cheek against the stock are trying to align and do it comfortably

(You can alter the Cast off even more to add 'Cant' or called Kick-out' sometimes.
The bottom screw hole is displaced a bit further out from the center line than the top. The butt plate is Canted. This is purposely done to make the rifle more comfortable to shoot (for some people) as the shoulder is not a straight up and down joint.
You will see this adjustment on many Brit gunstocks)

With the butt plate mounted with the amt of Cast-off you desire and any or no Cant to it. The center line of the stock now moves slightly to the right along the comb to meet the new location of the center of the butt plate. However it still begins at the same point up front at the action tang where it aligns with the bore center.
The Toe line of the stock is drawn using the bottom center of the butt plate and the center of the grip (cap).

Now the stock is shaped to those new center line(s). The same shape as if it had no Cast-Off,,just that the butt stock is moved over to the right a slight amt and if the Cant is added the toe is kicked out a little.
Adjustments in shaping are done for these changes but they are not obvious to the eye unless you glance down the stock from either end. Easier to see if you turn the gun upside down and look from the bbl end actually.

A cheek piece should be no different, larger or smaller than if there were no cast off at all. It's just displaced a very small amt to the right because the comb line center moves that way tapering from a tiny amt at the nose to the full cast off amt at the heel.

This is the rifle I am currently building and an example of cast off and cant/toe-out.

First shows the castoff with reference to the line of the bore. The second shows the cant/toe-out. Pay attention to the bubble on the level as the picture was fairly difficult to take and it appears the level is canted.

I have done this so that the rifle fits my body shape. You have to be careful when casting off to insure you leave material on the left side for cheek placement. This is an area where a cheek piece can help.

Cast off was about a 1/4" and cant/toe-out about 1/4"

Note: I edited to change the terminology so there isn't any confusion

LRF,
Your pictures are extremely helpful.

Thank you!

The post defining cast-off and can't by Kutter, along with the photos posted by LRF make this explanation about as idiot-proof as anything I have seen. Since the subject comes up from time to time, it would be nice if Dave saved those two posts as a Sticky in the FAQ section, for future reference.

This subject, and much more, is also very well covered and explained in the book "Gunfitting: The Quest for Perfection for Shotguns and Rifles" by Michael Yardley.

(Set guns here, not rifle) While close, what if the stock bows “off” but butt comes back towards centerline? No cheek piece. Perfect stock for me btw.

rrrgcy,
Did you have those stocks made for you? Thanks

Hello I did not. Thank you for asking, If you've seen a stock set like this before I'd love to know what maker, It's not a cross-over but a hollowing type... All my vintage and other book reading hasn't shown this design mentioned.

Atkin Grant & Lang record says these H/H were made for an English doctor in 1925. The seller surprisingly stated he believed it was a negative but I purchased them as a plus - and wonderfully these work. They settle and feel like magic. Matched consecutive set #1,#2 from 1925 UK. Maybe it's for a fat cheek. This design puts the eye behind the rib and turns the butt back towards centerline.

My thought when I chose to acquire these relied on my work experience in my way of having always mounted (and yet still) an AR carbine (and back when an HK MP5/10) into my centerline atop my inner collarbone joint nearly dead-center. When a stock comes towards dead centerline of your body (instead of out towards your shoulder) to me it makes for an incredibly bank vault solid mount and natural presentation.

The specs given at sale were, "Cast off at heel 1/2", and 3/4" at toe, IC/IM, IC/IM, 14 1/4" LOP, 1 3/4" heel, 1 1/2" comb, regulated for no. 6 shot - no.1 gun right barrel 134 pellets in 30" circle while left barrel delivered 208; no.2 gun 133 right and 209 left." I've not measured the sticks to confirm anything. I believe I have put shot on paper to confirm percentages of shot in the circle but would need to find my records.

The issue for someone like me about these guns is irrational fear - of stock breakage. I do take them out infrequently for skeet, and once for hunting dove in a public 68,000 acre management area, but I'd frankly not forgive myself if anything cracked/broke, especially at wrist. Use RST and Polywad but my supply is thin. If Kent is a good low recoil shotshell - please confirm!

Has anyone seen stocks like these (post above)?