doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion Classic & Custom Single Barreled Sporting Rifles @ doublegunshop.com Mysterious English Rook rifle

Greetings!

I'm attempting to find out more about who might have made this English 360 No. 5 rook rifle, as there's no maker's name engraved anywhere on the gun.

This rifle has a .366 groove diameter and will accept 38 Special cartridges. It has a nice piece of walnut with steel butt plate and horn forend tip.
There are London proof marks on the left side of the breech, but I don’t know what the small scrolling ‘R’ stamp means - maybe a reproof mark?
It has a single standing and single folding leaf sight marked ‘50 YRDS’ and ‘100 YRDS’. The muzzle has an unusual convex crown, with about 1/4” of unrifled and over-size bore inside the barrel.

I can shoot about a 4” group at 50 yards with hollow-based wad cutter 38 Special ammunition. I would like to try a larger heeled .366 bullet, but I’ll need a custom mould for that.

It may have been made by Webley, as it looks like many guns illustrated online and in The Classic British Rook and Rabbit Rifle book.

Please see pictures below. Your thoughts and comments are welcome, thank you!

mbatten

https://app.photobucket.com/u/rmbatten/a/a47a3b7c-bb47-4afa-b423-878d209ccbac

Quite nice finish on that rifle. Sorry I don't have anything to share.

mbatten,
You might try conical bullets intended for 36cal cap and ball pistols. The max diameter is .375, but it's such a short section at that diameter that it shouldn't make a difference as long as it chambers. The base section that stands in for the "heel" is very short so it has to be handled carefully. Lube with Alox or spray lube. My cousin uses them in his .380 Rook Rifle.
Mike

Thanks Mike - will give that a try.

Look for 380 LUNGO ammunition. It will be the same dimensions. Fiocchi produced this up until a few years ago. I bought 2 boxes from one of the members on this site. Works great.
I have some new 38 Long colt brass and correct heeled bullets if you may need some.

If you're okay with casting your own bullets, you might try Accuratemolds. They may have exactly what you might want, but you can specify your own measurements, and modify another design by eliminating the base band. Also, for a modest price, an entirely different cavity can be cut in the same block. There are also shops that might have off the shelf expanders for the brass to fit your base. Best of luck with it.

Will the chamber accept a .38 S&W cartridge? That's about .366 IIRC

I haven’t tried it, but the chamber cast indicates closer to 38 Special.

mbatten,
I believe the cartridge is based on the 38 Long Colt, which is a little shorter than 38 S&W Special but since the chamber was reamed for a heeled bullet it will chamber a 38 Special. Starline markets 38 Long Colt cases, but you can just shorten 38 Special. We see rifles of this type with different names, even Holland and Holland. It was likely made In Birmingham "For the Trade", and being unmarked, if the seller was a "Name" company they would have their name applied. If the seller was a local (small) shop, they may or may not mark it. It may have come from the same shop as my friend's Holland and Holland, but likely didn't cost you as much. There are enough of these rifles around that you might take craigd's suggestion and call Accurate Molds; they may have already made a mold that will work for you.
Mike

I would guess you're right Mike, the hollow base wadcutter is probably fully in the 38sp case. Not that it is a benchrest rifle, but the wadcutter is probably also long for caliber.

mbatten, if a good heeled bullet can be figured out, you may only have to trim your brass to the point it reliably chambers? Because it's low pressure and assuming the brass drops out of the chamber, I would try get a good ID measurement of the fired brass mouth, and specify a heel diameter to friction fit. Then, you might just finger, not press seat the bullets. As Mike mentioned, you can tumble lube particularly if the HB wadcutters are working out ok, without sizing. Anyway, great looking little rifle.