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Originally Posted by Der Ami
That story shows that it is not the cartridge, but rather the "hold". The trick is just don't shoot if the shot isn't right , especially when trying something like that.
Mike

Mike, it seems you missed my point entirely. I cannot prove it, but always assumed my buddy's "hold" on that doe he shot with a .338 Win. Magnum was good. He was a fine shot who hand-loaded for fine accuracy, and he always sighted his guns in and got plenty of practice. He told me he was heading back toward camp near dusk when the doe and two yearlings stepped out onto a logging road and stopped. He had a broadside shot at a stationary deer at around 50-60 yards with a rifle that had way more horsepower than needed to do the job. But he said that as he was squeezing the trigger with a "hold" on the heart, the deer suddenly leaped forward into the brush. All it took was a split second of movement, and his shot landed a good foot behind where he intended. When I joined in on the tracking job, we had a spotty blood trail of dark blood, but he was sure we'd soon find the deer piled up dead. It didn't work out that way. I saw the deer first with my rechargeable spotlight. It was standing with her ears down and head in her side looking back at me. It's tail was clamped down and it was obviously hurting. But it moved into the darkness before my buddy could get in position for a finishing shot. It was another hour and a half before we were able to finish it.

If the OP really killed 304 deer in 55 years of hunting, all one shot kills, and never lost or wounded one, that is an outstanding record. I related a couple weeks ago how I got hypothermia tracking a deer I shot, and subsequently lost because the wind and snow became so bad I couldn't track it any longer. That was a roughly 45 yard standing broadside chip-shot with a .50 cal. flintlock, and I never saw a deer go down so fast. I held for a high heart shot, which I like because the massive blood loss ensures a very fast kill, and the lower chambers often keep pumping and get a lot of blood out of the meat. I'll never know what went wrong, because it began flopping around as I was reloading, which I was certain was only nerves. Then it jumped up and took off running. But I know things don't always work out perfectly when hunting. I've had bullets deflected by a small branch or twig. And even a 300 gr. .50 cal. Maxi Hunter bullet wasn't enough to compensate. I killed several deer with a .45 cal flintlock, and none went over 40 yards before dropping dead. But I switched to the .50 cal because I didn't feel that a .45 cal 90 grain roundball at over 1100 fps was enough for less than perfect shots. A .25 cal ACP 52 gr. bullet at roughly the same velocity is much more marginal, but fine for small game. I used the .50 cal flintlock simply because I felt that putting the crosshairs of a scoped .30-06 on a deer was too easy, and I didn't mind losing out on killing a deer because of something like a bad flint or my pan powder getting wet. But when I learned to make the thing go off reliably, it was more than adequate to make a quick humane kill... except for that one I lost.

I know my bolt action .22 LR could easily put a bullet in a deer's ear every time at 50 yards, and kill it instantly. I do that every summer on groundhogs. I don't need to risk wounding a deer to prove it to myself. If the OP hits a deer with .25 ACP bullet in the jaw because it moved it's head as the trigger was pulled, do you think we will hear about it running off to starve?


A true sign of mental illness is any gun owner who would vote for an Anti-Gunner like Joe Biden.

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At least a good .22LR can place the bullets with surgical accuracy, unlike the double rifle in question. And, that is not meant to be a disparaging comment on this, or other double rifles. Surgical accuracy is not expected with them. They weren't designed to head shoot squirrels in the treetops.


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Hello Stanton Hills,

I don't intend to shoot squirrels in the treetops. And, how many double rifles do you own where-upon you base that opinion? No need to answer.

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Originally Posted by Ted Schefelbein
When there get to be too many deer on the regional airport in Anoka County, the DNR contracts with a couple sharpies that use suppressed Ruger 10/22s. The deer are shot in the head, at night, from a stand, over bait.

I don’t do it, but, I know it can be done.

Best,
Ted

Yep.
I grew up in semi-rural SWPA, and a lot of people had good-sized plots of corn.
Marauding deer were handled with a .22 at night.
Totally legal if the crop was above a certain % of income. The Game Dept just wanted to come see the deer; one phone call handled it.


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Originally Posted by buckstix
Hello Stanton Hills,

... And, how many double rifles do you own where-upon you base that opinion? No need to answer.

I'll bite. You don't need to own a double rifle to know that they are not precision tack drivers. But you already knew that.

Look, buckstix. If your ego says this must be done, you're going to do it, regardless of the ethics. The id cannot be denied in your case.
JR


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God bless America, long live the Republic.
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John Roberts,
I am not arguing that the 25 ACP is suitable for deer, only that with correct placement it will kill one. Being from southern Mississippi I'm pretty sure that if you ask around, you will find out that they have frequently been killed with 22 LR (less powerful than 25ACP) or maybe 22short in your area. None of these are suitable but, at least 25 ACP (with expanding bullet) is legal in Alabama, being centerfire. I can remember reading other people's opinion that 25-35, even 30-30 are not suitable for deer. I think you would agree they will kill a deer under the right conditions, while under other conditions they might not be suitable.
Mike

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Originally Posted by buckstix
Hello All,

Today I tested some Cast Lead bullets. I think I've found my hunting load.

With a muzzle velocity averaging 1160 fps, it developes 150 ft/lbs muzzle energy with over 110 ft'lbs remaining at 65 yards. (about max distance for a clean head shot given the accuracy)

[Linked Image from buckstix.com]

Does one barrel shoot more reliably to point of aim and group better than the other?
Have you shot groups for each barrel independent of the other?
How are the trigger pull weights?

Last edited by Tom Findrick; 02/03/22 02:47 PM.

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Originally Posted by Der Ami
John Roberts,
I am not arguing that the 25 ACP is suitable for deer, only that with correct placement it will kill one.
Mike
Mike,
Sure it CAN. But that peashooter is not suitable for a reliable kill shot on a grown deer. This near toy buckstix has had built can be used for bagging a rabbit for the pot, a treed raccoon, or a feral cat at 40 ft., but using it on deer, even by Ol' One Shot, is nothing but a "look-at-me" stunt. Otherwise, why do it?
JR

Last edited by John Roberts; 02/03/22 04:35 PM.

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Originally Posted by Tom Findrick
Does one barrel shoot more reliably to point of aim and group better than the other?
Have you shot groups for each barrel independent of the other?
How are the trigger pull weights?
Hello Tom Findrick,
Thanks for the reply.

Trigger pulls are both consistent and predictable at about 3 pounds. I have not tested the barrels independently for groups. I'm satisfied that the composite groups are acceptable for hunting. I'm continuing to test further to improve the groups and will post updates here.

Hello to the others,

This started out as a fun post and as stated above, I'm not going to debate this further. If you self-appointed ethics judges aren't comfortable with "your" abilities, that's ok. I'm most confident with "mine". If you don't like my posts, feel free to block them, then you won't have to suffer from my ethics.

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Originally Posted by buckstix
This started out as a fun post and as stated above, I'm not going to debate this further. If you self-appointed ethics judges aren't comfortable with "your" abilities, that's ok. I'm most confident with "mine". If you don't like my posts, feel free to block them, then you won't have to suffer from my ethics.

It's not us who will suffer.

It's a somewhat neat item, executed well by a very talented gunmaker, in a poor choice of caliber. But you laid out your plans and intentions for questionable use of this piece. I disagree and believe it's a selfish stunt. I will leave you to your own devices.
JR


Be strong, be of good courage.
God bless America, long live the Republic.
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