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Joined: Mar 2007
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If you can stomach it, pattern some of those vintage 16-gauge shells I gave you and compare their patterns to moderns shells as KY Jon noted. Modern plastic wads and progressive powders were game changers.

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And then there is this: https://shotgunreport.com/2016/11/28/altitude-effect/

Are you patterning on one of your chukar mountains?

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I have a 1940's model 12 16 gauge with 0.667 bore and 0.008 choke marked MOD. I believe the choke is factory unaltered. I agree that that seems light for a MOD choke but have had several others tell me it was normal from Winchester? I have never had enough confidence in it (based on some 16 yard trap shooting) to use it as my late season long range pheasant gun. I need to pattern it on paper. Just yesterday I passed on a model 12 16 gauge solid rib marked Imp.Mod. (really looking for same in full). I didn't have bore gauge to measure the constriction but close inspection showed that the choke had been probably opened up. I did score 3 boxes of Win Super X paper shells 2-16 gauge 2 9/16" roll crimped and 1 - 12 gauge 2 3/4" for all $40! Happy to get them.

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Originally Posted by Bluestem
And then there is this: https://shotgunreport.com/2016/11/28/altitude-effect/

Are you patterning on one of your chukar mountains?

Nope. 4300 ft is “down in the valley” here. I read that whole thing…..kind of felt like I just walked through a big, wet, sloppy manure pile. Gonna take a shower now to get all that bullshit stank off of me. 😂.

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Just measured a Ithaca 37 16 ga. MOD out of curiosity. 0.659 bore and 0.020 choke. the bore size is surprising. I don't shoot it or like it nearly as much as the model 12.

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Dustin,
Is there a big difference between the English felt wad 16s and the plastic wad US ammunition? The plastic wads throw tighter patterns in my experience.

Out of a Browning A5 16, an acquaintance tells me he runs either .012 or .018 constriction, depending. I haven’t spent much time patterning the 16s I own.

Best,
Ted

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Dustin, 1959 M12 28" MOD .665" bore, .015" choke. A windy, cold January dove shoot at dawn a handful of years ago. Abby tucked in out of the wind. Gil
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

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I had a Model 21 16ga, mid-30's gun (DT/extractors). Bore diameter was .669. Gun was choked IC in both barrels (.006/.008), but unfortunately I never checked Winchester records to determine whether those chokes were original. SN6062.

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Originally Posted by L. Brown
I had a Model 21 16ga, mid-30's gun (DT/extractors). Bore diameter was .669. Gun was choked IC in both barrels (.006/.008), but unfortunately I never checked Winchester records to determine whether those chokes were original. SN6062.

Larry, did you happen to pattern the gun, and if so, how did those chokes pattern for you? Like IC chokes should, or a little tighter/looser than normal?

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Dustin:

In the FWIW column here, having just cut 1 1/2 inch of barrel off of a circa 1927 M12 16 bore, it patterns quite nicely at 9 points of choke (which I'd have thought was slightly-tight IC) . During the process of getting to the end of the crack we were eliminating, it seemed like there was at least 3-inches of constriction going on in it's tube. Not sure what that means, except that I'm even-more impressed with the build quality of these older Winchesters. As far as a comparison, was also shooing my English 16 as well that day and it's right tube is choked IC (7-8 thousand) and the patterns (which were side by side) were comparable. Looking forward to using it on something other than a grease board soon, maybe the local pet & shoot?

Last edited by Lloyd3; 03/24/22 08:34 AM.
1 member likes this: Ted Schefelbein
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