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Sidelock
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Sidelock

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Originally Posted by eeb
The Left never lets the truth stand in the way of their narrative

And that is the real source of this issue ! Not backed by any real independent research ,just dogma spouted by the anti shooting activists across europe who care not a jot for the wildlife they pretend to be interested in .

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shooting organisations threw themselves behind the British game alliance which was an organisation made up of stake holder groups such as BASC and game dealers. The goal of the BGA was to find end user markets for shot game.

The BGA identified two potential markets, export to eastern markets, and pulping for use in dog food. - I think the latter forming the main part.

The problem with pulping to make dog food is that when you mince it all up you mince the lead up which is difficult to extract and essentially there will be no market for a dog food which over the years might slowly poison your dog.

The move to steel is so that in the ideal world we can pulp and pulse the meat, float it on water and pass it through high power magnets to remove the shot, the resulting dog food then does not have to have the warning on it that your mutt might go loopy and drop dead.

Of course there are problems with steel, particularly with older guns, these problems are made worse by the fact we actually have a proof house and proof laws and different levels of proof for "high performance steel" and standard steel.

The proof house is being very cautious now saying no steel through more than 1/4 choke, gunsmiths are doing over time boring the chokes out of guns left right and centre. The thing is i remember trying some standard steel about ten years ago, i found it killed well and there was no advice about chokes as far as i can remember.

Gun owners are chopping and changing guns in, part Xing in guns that might be absolutely worthless in a year or so's time but at the same time developments and existing technologies are being found and brought in.

Whatever it is its certainly a boon for the new gun trade and to be honest we haven't found it affect second hand shop sales which we still do well on but the buzz word is definitely steel shot and half chokes, Teague's doing a roaring trade. Retail prices are always inflated, but when you look at auctions old guns have really taken a battering in value you hammer guns and the like then again its hard to find a hammer gun worth buying these days.

I wonder if we will see a change of attitudes, so far as I can see if you really like old guns and want to be one of the few who is still carrying one into the field, you would cough up the £5000 or so and have a new pair of barrels made and proof the gun for standard steel with those barrels fitted up, you can keep you Damascus barrels tucked away for the occasional shot. £5000 is a lot of money granted but when it comes to buying you a nice new gun its money that wouldn't take you very far, few will go down this route for the sake of a tired old hammer gun, but after 150 years what gun wouldn't be tired. Many many gun are being scrapped without second thought, and i think the reality is that in time this will have been seen to be an very destructive period in the gun world. because of that I think surviving examples will be more highly valued, usable examples even more so I suspect there is renewed value in guns what have been sleeved and re barrelled already because they are so much more usable than the thin pitted slightly off face gun that's "completely original"

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If we're talking big money and old guns, it might be more reasonable to spend the money on bismuth rather than a new set of barrels. Some time ago the question was asked to a very active and well traveled trap shooter here in the States why he didn't buy a motorhome or trailer and stay at the clubs for the shoots. His answer was "I can stay at an awful lot of hotel rooms for the price of one those things".

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Originally Posted by Demonwolf444
shooting organisations threw themselves behind the British game alliance which was an organisation made up of stake holder groups such as BASC and game dealers. The goal of the BGA was to find end user markets for shot game.

The BGA identified two potential markets, export to eastern markets, and pulping for use in dog food. - I think the latter forming the main part.

The problem with pulping to make dog food is....
I'll never pretend to understand UK choices that are rightfully their's, but it is very interesting that games shooting has been reduced to such a narrow mandate. Some of these staged shoots are so obscenely expensive, the tactic seems hypocritical. Human baby food, let alone dog biscuits from China don't always have the healthiest inclusions in it. Anyway, thanks Demonwolf for the insight.

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Originally Posted by craigd
I'll never pretend to understand UK choices that are rightfully their's, but it is very interesting that games shooting has been reduced to such a narrow mandate. Some of these staged shoots are so obscenely expensive, the tactic seems hypocritical. Human baby food, let alone dog biscuits from China don't always have the healthiest inclusions in it. Anyway, thanks Demonwolf for the insight.

Good points craigd. Here in the U.S., most of us eat what we shoot, or give it away to friends who appreciate wild game as a healthy alternative to the estrogen and antibiotic laced meat sold commercially.

In my state at least, it is actually illegal to sell our wild game harvest. So we are not as subject to the influence of those who continue to claim that game killed with lead ammunition is some existential threat to humanity.

Most of us are living proof that it isn't.

It may be too late for the UK and European Union hunters to reverse the tide. Nothing they have given up has been enough. And the only real hope for hunters here is to take a hard stand against it before it reaches the point of no return. Giving in to the wacko Liberal Left is just plain dumb. They will never be satisfied until guns and hunting are totally eliminated.

Just look to our north. Trudeau and the Liberals in Canadian Parliament are on the verge of freezing all sales of new and existing handguns, and implementing a mandatory buy-back of the semi-automatic rifles they hate. So much for the misguided notion that we can persuade the opposition to see things our way. The concept of learning from history is totally lost on some.


A true sign of mental illness is any gun owner who would vote for an Anti-Gunner like Joe Biden.

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Originally Posted by Borderbill
If we're talking big money and old guns, it might be more reasonable to spend the money on bismuth rather than a new set of barrels.

Absolutely, and get a more lethal load out of the deal, too.


May God bless America and those who defend her.
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In my state at least, it is actually illegal to sell our wild game harvest. So we are not as subject to the influence of those who continue to claim that game killed with lead ammunition is some existential threat to humanity.

California banned all lead ammo for all hunting a few years ago. One of the arguments presented by the goobers in Sacramento was that we were poisoning the children and the homeless by donating wild game to food banks and shelters. This state is governed by morons.

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Also, as I recall the California condor scavenging kills was the overriding consideration. It’s almost as if those birds have the vote

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Also, as I recall the California condor scavenging kills was the overriding consideration. It’s almost as if those birds have the vote

I have been hunting California and Arizona for over 60 years and I have NEVER seen a condor in the wild. Lots of turkey vultures, but no condors. When the goobers were trying to pass the complete statewide lead ban, they invoked the "it's for the children" angle to help get it over the top.

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Originally Posted by eeb
All that is a crying shame. Sounds like BASC has an agenda that does not include it’s members. Follow the money.

eeb, - you have highlighted an inescapable fact regarding BASC.

Quite a number of years ago this organisation announced its opposition to the shooting of large numbers of reared gamebirds , mainly pheasants, on commercial driven bird shoots. It adopted an "advisory" role (self assumed) and issued a set of its own recommendations on what should be acceptable practice for these shoots - bag numbers ie limits, stocking density, and rules on releasing amongst others. The seed of their agenda had seemingly fallen on stony ground: the reverse actually happened for a number of years, during widespread general economic growth the large commercial shoots prospered and got ..ahem... bigger. Despite this it seems that the BASC anti-driven shooting faction (do it our way or...) had not gone away but modified its stance to one more "advisory on best practice" instead of dictatorial. In the last two to three years Covid driven restrictions saw a number of shoots close and now in 2022 due to Avian Influenza amongst the EU gamebird breeder farmers there is a major shortage of replacement stock for importation either as eggs or day old chicks. The big commercial shoots in search of birds for their release programme have driven the price of available replacements to absurd levels - and yes price gouging is quite rampant here. End result will be that smaller commercial shoots which closed for a few seasons will be completely finished and those who cannot source new stock this year will also be done for. So that just leaves - The Big Commercial shoots. ..... Just Another Nail in the Lid.

The later drive to abolish lead shot in UK was driven and spearheaded by the BASC executive - the clique of a few individuals at upper management. In the early stages BASC repeatedly referred to its participation in EU managed "consultations" on future restrictions to use of lead shot and muttered blandishments. Yet again it gradually assumed the mantle of "leader" in this issue in UK - subsequently driving this progamme which will end in the debacle of a complete ban on lead shot, bullet heads and airgun pellets.

These are two big issues driven by an outfit which purports to safeguard shooting sports. There are other instances of their incompetence in dealing with issues such as the abolition of the old game licence issued by state post offices [ how else could one provide figures on the number of participants in game shooting with which to support shooting and refute anti-blood sport organisations] and its almost complete acquiescence in issues on firearm and shotgun licensing procedures.

So this leads the thinker to ponder on the usefulness of BASC -- are they just a bunch of inompetents as living proof of the unintended consequences to their actions, or perhaps fall guys duped in their consultative capacity by organisations inimical to fieldsports, or as agents of self harm to the shooting industry in pursuing their own agenda ? Whatever, the toxic legacy of BASC will bear comparison to other incompetents in the ruling classes and the Law Of Unintended Consequences eg the UK governments post-Thatcher. No doubt you may see similarities in US ....

(PS - in case you think I have an axe to grind on behalf of commercial shoots - I do not participate ).

Last edited by greener4me; 06/08/22 06:39 AM. Reason: addition
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