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Joined: May 2022
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Boxlock
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Every once in a while the gun buying bug gets me and this time I chose a Webley and Scott 700 imported by Abercrombie and Fitch in the 50's. I'm hoping to gain some insight into it as I am thinking now that it is either a brilliant piece, or maybe there was a good reason no one else was interested in buying it. It is a 20 gauge and the ad for it stated 3" chambers. And it has 20 gauge chambers, -but the bores are 16 gauge! Its proof is 16, 3 1/4 tons, 2 3/4". The chambers are indeed 3", in fact they are actually 28" as the 16 gauge bore size is so close to the 20 gauge chamber size that a 20 gauge chamber checker slides in all the way to the chokes. There are no inserts in the chambers that I can detect. It seems clearly to have been built this way, although I can find no other shotgun in this configuration on the entire internet. I have not shot it yet. I thought it would be a nifty little grouse gun. It is just 6 pounds and points beautifully for me. It looks hardly used. Single trigger.
My questions would be, why was this built? Are there others? My guess is it was made for the American market and 20 gauge was more popular than 16 so they chambered the gun so that future owners could buy shells at Walmart?
Could there be any advantage in such an overbored gun besides that? Any disadvantages?
And finally, what loads would be appropriate?
I'm hoping someone finds these questions interesting enough to give their insights.

Last edited by Michael in NH; 05/12/22 01:36 PM.
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Can we have photos of the proof marks please?

I have seen references to 16 bores being chamber sleeved to 20 bore to make them more attractive in the American market.

Apparently they pattern and shoot perfectly well despite the oversized bores.

You may have bought one of those.

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A 16 ga shell won’t go in the chamber??? The barrel flats indicate it’s a 16 b with 2 3/4” chambers.


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The proofs say 16ga 2&3/4" chambers. The number inside the diamond is the chamber gauge. The bores are 16 ga too.


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If a 16 gauge shell will not fit, then have you considered that you may have purchased a chamber sleeved gun to a 20 bore and it was not re-proofed? Removed the extractors and see if you see signs of a sleeved chamber.

Last edited by bushveld; 05/12/22 03:23 PM.
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Thank you for the photograph. It was built and proved as a 16 bore.

The date stamp (KXB) is for 1959.

It has clearly been chamber sleeved. If that had been done in the UK it should have gone back to the Proof House for re-proof.

See page 156 of Diggory Hadoke’s book “Hammer Guns” for a photo of the Proof Marks on a 16 bore chamber sleeved to 20 showing the 16 bore dimensions but the 20 (in a diamond) chamber marking.

At pages 156 to 158 he discusses the process, and remarks that “counter intuitively” it seems to work better than might be expected.

You might find yours works well, but you need to consider how much you have invested and the problems you could encounter on trying to re-sell it. I see it was described to you as a 2 3/4” 20 bore. Did you buy it from a dealer, at auction or privately?

Last edited by Parabola; 05/12/22 03:34 PM.
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Any chance Briley chamber sleeved it? Did they mark their handywork?

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Ah. I will have to read up on chamber sleeving. What are the possible reasons one would choose to have a shotgun's chambers sleeved?

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Proofed as a 16 gauge
Can you post a picture of the chamber end of the barrels?
Mike


USAF RET 1971-95 [Linked Image from jpgbox.com]
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