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Joined: Jan 2002
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Sidelock
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ah don git hit...

if you know the barrels are thin...

why shoot guns with barrels so thin...

why take the risk...


keep it simple and keep it safe...
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Originally Posted by ed good
ah don git hit...

if you know the barrels are thin...

why shoot guns with barrels so thin...

why take the risk...

Some people actually know what they are doing, ed. Don’t trouble yourself with it.

Best,
Ted

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so hits bout ego den...

"here, hold mah beer while ah show youse how hits done"


keep it simple and keep it safe...
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Found another DuPont ballistic table
Clearly the c. 1920's published pressures as significantly higher than the c. 1900 pressures. Some can be explained by different powders, and it may be that by 1920 the DuPont Brandywine Experimental Station testing was more accurate

Capt. Charles Askins and E.M. Sweeley, “Patterns, Velocities, Ballistics”, May 1921 Outdoor Life
https://archive.org/details/sim_outdoor-life_1921-05_47_5/page/300/mode/2up

DuPont Bulk Smokeless
Numbers require adding 10 - 14% for modern piezo transducer pressures.

[Linked Image from photos.smugmug.com]

12 gauge 1 1/8 oz. in 2 3/4” Winchester Leader hull
3 Dram = 7,616 psi.....Max. 9,565 psi
3 1/4 Dr. = 7,840 psi

16 gauge 1 oz. in 2 7/8” hull
2 1/2 Dram = 7,683 psi.....Max. 8,176 psi
2 3/4 Dr. = 8,243 psi
3 Dr. = 9,363 psi

20 gauge 7/8 oz. in 2 7/8” hull
2 1/4 Dram = 10,550 psi.....Max. 11,715 psi
2 1/2 Dr. = 12,208 psi.....Max. 13,285 psi
2 3/4 Dr. = 12,902 psi.....Max. 14,022 psi + 10-14% - WOW!

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June, 1922 Outdoor Life
https://archive.org/details/sim_outdoor-life_1922-06_49_6/page/414/mode/2up

12 gauge with DuPont Bulk Smokeless. + 10 - 14% for transducer numbers. No. 6 shot (the standard)
1 oz.
2 3/4 Dr. Eq. = 5,958 psi
3 Dr. Eq. = 7,190

1 1/8 oz.
2 3/4 Dr. Eq. = 6,944 psi
3 Dr. Eq. = 7,840
3 1/4 Dr. Eq. = 8,758 psi

1 1/4 oz.
3 Dr. Eq. = 8,602 psi
3 1/4 Dr. Eq. = 9,610 psi
3 1/2 Dr. Eq. = 10,595 psi
3 3/4 Dr. Eq. = 11,581 psi

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Once again: Excellent information, Doc Drew!

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Originally Posted by Drew Hause
Not as exciting as this Tom. 1st shot with 12g 2 3/4" Bismuth Magnum Game Load 1 3/8 oz. Unfortunately, I don't have the wall thickness measurements or the pressure of that load

[Linked Image from photos.smugmug.com]

That right there got my attention! I shoot a number of "restored" vintage American doubles I've never had wall thickness confirmed for. I try to shoot low pressure loads, but there are those times people have handed me "whatever" shells so I could continue a hunt.

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Those of us who are Flatwater veterans will recall a modern Spanish 28ga on which one barrel blew. That's after having passed modern Spanish proof. Somehow bored with a thin spot of (IIRC) .014". Taking part of the shooter's hand with it. So even having passed modern proof is not necessarily a 100% guarantee.

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July, 1922 Outdoor Life
https://archive.org/details/sim_outdoor-life_1922-07_50_1/page/48/mode/2up
16 gauge with DuPont Bulk. Plus 10 - 14%
7/8 oz.
2 1/2 Dr. Eq. = 7,325 psi
2 3/4 Dr. Eq. = 7,728 psi
1 oz.
2 1/2 Dr. Eq. = 7,930 psi
2 3/4 Dr. Eq. = 8,400 psi
1 1/8 oz.
3 Dr. Eq. = 11,670 psi


August, 1922 Outdoor Life
https://archive.org/details/sim_outdoor-life_1922-08_50_2/page/120/mode/2up
20 gauge with DuPont Bulk. Plus 10 - 14%
7/8 oz.
2 1/4 Dr. Eq. = 10,550 psi
2 1/2 Dr. Eq. = 11,715 psi
1 oz.
2 1/4 Dr. Eq. = 12,029 psi
2 1/2 Dr. Eq. = 13,373 psi or about 14,750 psi by transducers

28 gauge Plus 10 - 14%
5/8 oz. 2 Dr. Eq. = 8,714 psi
3/4 oz. 2 Dr. Eq. = 10,259 psi
3/4 oz. 2 1/8 Dr. Eq. = 10,998 psi
7/8 oz. 2 Dr. Eq. = 12,387 psi

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Standard loads from Outdoor Life Sept. 1922

[Linked Image from photos.smugmug.com]

Note the standard trap load was still 1 1/4 oz.

In 1913 the Interstate Association submitted a poll to trapshooters:
Are you in favor of restricting loads for target shooting to 3 Drams Bulk, or the equivalent in Dense powder, and 1 1/8 oz. of shot?
Frank Butler – “Let me say that the shooter can break targets with a three dram one and one-eighth load if he holds right. Harold Money, who traveled as a professional for years, always used three Drams “Schultze” Powder and one and one-eighth shot.”
https://books.google.com/books?id=fZBBAQAAMAAJ&pg=RA5-PA10&lpg

DuPont began an advertising campaign promoting 3 Dram loads in 1914

In 1919 the Executive Committee of the American Trapshooting Association voted on whether to establish the standard load a 1 1/8 oz. 3 Dr. Eq. The proposal failed.
Arms and The Man, August 2, 1919
https://books.google.com/books?id=TBofKvr1Fi4C&pg=PA377&lpg

It was not until April 1940 that the ATA disallowed 1 1/4 ounce loads.

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