doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com re barrel wall thicknesses for safe shooting

we have had much discussion here about minimum acceptable barrel wall thicknesses...

opinions vary...

numbers seem to range from .020 to .030...with location of those measurements rather vague, but mostly some distance down from the muzzles, vs some distance up from the breaches...

but what about measurements up from the breaches?

what in your opinion, are minimum acceptable barrel wall thicknesses up from the breaches and where are those measurements located?

years ago, doc drew and others told us that when a smokeless shotgun cartridge is detonated, the maximum pressure created by that explosion, occurs at the beginning of the forcing cones, directly in front of the chambers...and as the shot column proceeds down the barrels, the pressure decreases...

and if that be true, then it makes sense that the barrel wall thicknesses directly in front of the chambers, are critical for safe shooting...

anyone here wish to share any guidelines that they follow re minimum barrel wall thicknesses in front of chambers, for safe shooting?

If you have yours, ed, why do you care what others' are? Does that indicate you are unsure about yours, as much as you trusted "ol' Ed"?

X
I'm afraid I have to side with ed here Stan. In the recent barrel wall thickness Thread, the Preacher posted extremely conflicting data concerning what some consider to be safe minimums,. Others posted their own opinions that were in general agreement. Then the Preacher told us about the .016" wall thickness of his one-and-only Damascus shotgun at a point only 14" from the breech, and made excuses for why he continues to use a gun that most intelligent people would part out or consign to wall hanger status.

He has apparently gotten away with it, thus far. But that only creates confusion and questions for ed and others who now have no way of knowing what it true, and what is correct.

The fact is, there is no simple answer to ed's question. Posting a bunch of random measurements won't help. Silly demands from the Preacher for measurements of my Lefevers won't help either. There are many variables, ranging from the type of steel, the minimum wall thickness, the maximum pressure of the ammunition used, and the overall conditition, i.e., presence of dents, pits, bulges, etc. Then there are things that cannot be known, such as the presence of hidden inclusions within the steel that only are revealed after a rupture event. No manual thickness measuring equipment is going to help detect a large internal slag inclusion.

Then there has to be a margin of safety factored into the equation. This is routinely done by manufacturing engineers, and it has been done by trial and error by gun builders for centuries. This is to help account for unknowns and things like partial obstructions. Proof testing has also helped to establish just how thin barrels may be struck without excessive risk of failure.

People get away with driving on bald and defective tires every day... until they blow out and cause an accident. The fact that some fool drove on tires that had a less thsn safe minimum tread condition does not establish a standard that is to be recommended. It only shows that some people who try to pawn themselves off as experts, should be viewed with a healthy dose of skepticism. And they should not be protected from questions and criticism, just because they may have skin even thinner than their barrels.

But the repetitive copying-and-pasting of old advertising, interspersed with incorrect data and silly observations, is apparently enough to fool a number of folks. Incorrect assertions become accepted and are repeated. If you think about it, ed and his questions aren't the real problem here.

stan, unlike perhaps you, i am always interested in learning what others think...

an perhaps unlike you, i do not think i know everything...once one becomes a know it all, one stops learning...

keith, your post above seems to be about damascus barrels... my question relates to fluid steel barrels only...

i am not looking for all inclusive answers with no exceptions...

i am looking for your guidelines only, based on your experience and scholarship...recognizing that there are always exceptions...

so where do we go from here?

do you have any specific guidelines that you have developed that you care to share with us?

for example, if you are evaluating a 12 gauge gun with fluid steel barrels that appear to be in fine shooting condition, with no obvious flaws, what are the minimum barrel wall thicknesses that you would be comfortable with, and where might those measurements be located?

others, please feel free to add your positive input...

Keith, I was, and am, only addressing Ed's incessant inability to grasp what good data means. He begs for other's guidelines when he already has stated his opinions. Look at his tagline (90/30). He just wants to hear himself "talk", and engage unsuspecting souls in his useless banter.

You have determined your stance on shooting damascus barrels, and I can appreciate that. I can appreciate anyone's opinions who have done the homework themselves to formulate them. No argument there. What I get sick of are bums who want a handout and are unwilling to dig for the data and, over time, make their own mind up. As long as I can remember Ed has asked for opinions then engaged that unsuspecting person, who was sincerely trying to help, and point out why he thinks they're wrong, or twist their efforts to help. It's his unchanging modus operandi.

Best to you, SRH

William: why is it so hard for you to admit that you don't have a wall thickness gauge, and therefore nothing to contribute to these threads?
Your guns, and your choice not to know the MWTs.

ed is posting simply for his entertainment and to call attention to himself, as he once did with the endless torch threads. If we stop playing, maybe he'll stop?

what in your opinion, are minimum acceptable barrel wall thicknesses up from the breaches and where are those measurements located?

any one?