doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Assistance with a UK late 19th-early 20th C proofs

Can one of you please interpret this shotgun proof marks. The gun should have been made in Spring 1897. It should by all rights have London proofs on it when made. I know it's been reproofed. But I'll be darned if I can understand what I'm seeing...(these are the original barrels).



Thanks

Well, you have Birmingham marks for the 1st pass & then London marks for the reproof pass.


Serbus,

Raimey
rse

Too, I see Birmingham marks higher on the tubes forward of the flats.

Serbus,

Raimey
rse

maybe this chart will help now and in the future...

https://www.vintageguns.co.uk/magazine/514-2

Gene,
Just a bit outside my wheelhouse, but, I’ll give it a shot...
The gun was originally proofed at 13 bore, or, 728. This was common, I’ve owned several 12 gauge English guns that were proofed the same way. The marks for 3 tons, 2 1/2” and 728 are all key to determining if the gun remains in proof. If the bore hasn’t been honed more than .010, or, the chamber lengthened, you should be good to go with CIP 2 1/2” ammunition. There is (was?) choke in the left tube when it was proofed, in that era I don’t believe they indicated how much choke, just that it was there.

Not sure what other questions you may have.

Best,
Ted

The London re-Proof was date stamped 1987.

The original 13 bore Birmingham Black Powder Proof is .710 (up to .718) so prior to re-proof the bores have been honed out between 10 to 20 thou.

You might want to check wall thicknesses up front, but it should be OK with CIP 2 1/2” cartridges as long as the chambers have not been lengthen or it has not otherwise been weakened or neglected since it was re-Proofed.

What that guy said. Out of original proof, but, perhaps still in reproof. Don’t feed it 1450fps 2 3/4 Oz loads. Probably needs some measurement before you take it Grouse hunting.
Good luck.

Best,
Ted

Thanks. Now here is where I got hung up. I think the BRUM proof were from 1887-1896, not 1896-1904. And when trying to figure things out there seem to be some missing proof marks. Here are the barrel flats marked up I think more or less correctly - the proof mark charts are from Diggory Hadoke:



Questions:
1. "13" (bore size) not mentioned in Diggory's chart for that time period 1887-96.
2. Two proof marks appear to be missing from the London reproof. Is the London proof CP etc. possibly not necessary on a reproof? If the gun is already marked chambered for 12, does the London proof house need to remark it "12" other than the bore size?

Any suggestions?

Fyi: right barrel Cylinder. Left. .018 (American modified). Solid hammer gun.

Gene,

In Diggory’s example he shows 13/1 (.719” to .728”) which is the intermediate step up from 13 to 12.

Above 12 you have 12/1 (.740”)

Ah.....that explains. Thanks.