doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com shooting smokeless in damascus barrels

found this...

https://firearmshistory.blogspot.com/2010/06/barrel-making-steel-barrels.html

note the last paragraph...

The rise of smokeless powders also had a lot to do with the decline of damascus barrels. Smokeless powders generate a lot more force than black powders. Smokeless powders also burn along the length of the barrel since they're slower burning than black powders, which mainly burn at the breech end and blow out an unburnt quantity out of the muzzle. Many damascus barrels couldn't withstand such pressures and those that could needed a lot more time and effort to manufacture. Hence steel barrels became more and more popular as smokeless powder became prevalent.

does this support my contention that it is dangerous to shoot smokeless powder in twist steel shotgun barrels?

and, doc drew, your input is particularly soliciated...

ED, As is often the case, it all depends. This Parker 20 GA was manufactured in the year 1900 and was used heavily by the lady that owned it shooting factory modern ammo.
My dad bought it and gave it to me when I was about 15 years old and I never used black powder in it. I still shoot it a little each year just for old times sake and it is still the fastest handling shotgun I have ever hunted with.


I can only speak for Parker Damascus barrels, but mine are just fine. I will pass this little beauty on to my daughter one day so it can keep on hunting.

Give it a rest Ed. You have flogged this horse way too much.

I’ve never asked a question on here regarding safe pressures. OTOH I have read a lot. Double Gun Journal. Posts here. Various authors. And I have arrived at my own opinions and sense of what I’m prepared to risk. I would suggest you do the same. You might find it helpful to become familiar with various European county’s proof laws. Not a bad starting point.

It’s clear from your posts on the subject, you are looking for the easy answer, likely to be able to quote it in your gun ads.

back, not asking about pressures here...

am asking for your reaction to the information presented above, which suggests that it is not safe to shoot smokeless loads in twist steel barrels...

and as for my sales advertising, i rarely sell guns with twist steel barrels...and when i do, i always suggest that the gun be fired with black powder loads only...

crs, your 20 ga parker gh looks like a lovely old gun...

but some words of caution...

the most recent barrel failure that i am aware of, is a 12 ga parker gh with damascus barrels...shooter was in the middle of a round of skeet, when the left barrel failed...

fortunately neither shooter nor squad mates were injured...

there are better guns to pass on to family...

I think Jack Rowe had some wise words when he said in one of his tutorials to make it short "was he using reloads?" Had the chambers been extended from original? If the answer is yes to either question Not a leg to stand on.
My personal view would you expect your grand parents or great grand parents to run Marathons, Skeet!

Cha - ching!!

Ed has seen the excellent graphs posted here by Doc Hause, and others, that show beyond any doubt that the pressure curves of smokeless can match those of black ........... same peaks, at the same place in the barrel, almost identical. Ed says he isn't asking about pressures here. What in hell does he think blows up barrels if it isn't pressure?

The rise of smokeless powders also had a lot to do with the decline of damascus barrels. Smokeless powders generate a lot more force than black powders. Smokeless powders also burn along the length of the barrel since they're slower burning than black powders, which mainly burn at the breech end and blow out an unburnt quantity out of the muzzle. Many damascus barrels couldn't withstand such pressures and those that could needed a lot more time and effort to manufacture. Hence steel barrels became more and more popular as smokeless powder became prevalent...

am asking for your reaction to the information presented above, which suggests that it is not safe to shoot smokeless loads in twist steel barrels...

anyone?

Ed, in tests done by the Birmingham Proof House (or maybe London), back when fluid steel was in the midst of taking over the barrel market, it was demonstrated pretty conclusively that damascus barrels were at least as strong, and most likely stronger, than fluid steel. The fluid steel barrels tended to fail before the Damascus. Today there are 1000s and 1000s of Damascus barreled gun being use, fired and no one is losing eyes or fingers. It's about educating oneself. Try it sometime.

The decline of Damascus likely has more to do with the 100 year long PR/misinformation campaign by the industry in order to get people to buy new guns. Even today, you for example, are propagating unfounded speculation as fact. Go to any shotgun forum that isn't comprised of members as well informed as the members here and it is a non stop barrage of how dangerous Damascus is.

Perhaps, the simple and best solution for you is to just remove yourself from the equation. Stop buying and selling Damascus.

We used to have to read your misinformed blather about colour case hardening. Only took about 10 years of metaphorically beating you about the head to get you off that subject. Please don't subject us to another 10 years of idiocy on Damascus barrels.

It was cost and cost alone that doomed Damascus,twist,barrels Damascus barrels are incredibly labor intensive