doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Fox Firing Pins(Hammers) not retracting

I had this problem with my Fox and found that my resizing die on my reloader had moved up and was not sizing down to the rim. Adjusted and fixed. If you are using factory ammo try different shells.

Reminds me of the day pheasant hunting with my Dad and his best friend, Herman Steinke, about 1950. Dad shot his 12 gauge M21, which I know own and shoot- Mr. Steinke had a 12 gauge Fox double- I wouldn't have known the grade back then, at age 9-- but I recall all the engraving. Lots of pheasants and also quail that Nov. Saturday back then, and Mr. Steinke had shot himself out of shells-so Dad gave him a few Peters blue paper shells- and after firing both barrels at a large covey flush, his gun would not open easily. (he made a double on that covey rise however).. I have a 20 gauge Sterlingworth (Utica gun) but I have not yet experienced those problems with it-I bought it well used from a grouse hunter about 12 years ago, as I had hopes of our State getting a legal dove season-- Hope in the right hand, crap in the left-see which fills up first I guess. RWTF

So, due to the design of the hammers, that can't have anything to do with the 'firing pins not retracting' now can it?

Thanks bushveld and Kutter for your detailed response. The cocking slide does not appear to be the answer. I compared the 16 in question to my 12 and the 12 functions exactly as you described. The 12 stops with minimal movement and then requires pressure on the barrels to cock the gun. On the 16 in question the cocking slide is not loose, absolutely no evidence of wear, looks new. Cocking slide mates as described with minimal barrel movement, however further relaxing of the barrels begins the cocking process, barrels begin to drop which leads me to believe I have weak coil springs for the hammers. The next issue which started this thread, barrels not opening appears to be a separate issue. My thumb is blue in attempting to push the top lever to the absolute farthest right (stop). It appears as if the rotating locking barrel is not retracting enough to disengage from the barrel lug. What might be worn? With Pumkin Mountain apparently closed who has the Fox parts?

16 gauge Fox rotating bolt will not be easy to find---although the 12 and 16 locking bolts may be the same outside diameter, I doubt it. A Fox 12 gauge rotating locking bolt is approximately .685" in outside diameter. I have had to make a Fox rotating cocking slide in the past and it is difficult to machine the rear pivot inside the rotating locking bolt correctly to make the gun easy to open. Some times the top lever shaft will break and cause what you are seeing with your gun. I know that I have a 12 gauge Fox top lever in my Fox parts. I think I have some 12 Fox locking bolts in my old Fox "stuff" and I can send you one to try to make work if that is what you find is wrong--take the butt stock off and look at the top lever, the top lever extension and its spring/plunger to see what is wrong. Do you have a metal lathe?

Is your Fox an ejector gun?

Taking the stock off a Fox is not as simple as most.

Thanks, Kutter for explaining in detail what's happening.

And also, what's been mentioned, soft primers make it worse. Remington primers are harder and pretty much solved the problem with my early A12 Fox.

And it turns out that when the hammers are down in the fired position, I've measured the extension of the firing pin tips out from the standing breech with the barrels off. That distance is just about 0.060".

The same measurement on a 12 gauge Sterlingworth is about 0.050". That gun opens fine with Winchester and other soft primers.

Jolly

I have found proper Fox firing pin protrusion measurements to be the same as JB in the past. I was checking them to try to determine why I was getting light primer strikes on a particular brand of shells. The cause turned out to be in the shells themselves, not the guns.

Kutter, your detailed explanations and instructions are so well written and thought out that it makes me wonder if you have not been an instructor at some time. They are very much appreciated here.

bushveld, again thank you for your response. It is not an ejector, don't have metal lathe but that's not an issue. I'll strip it in a day or two and see if I can determine the problem. Again anyone out there, where are the Fox parts now?

Brian Dudley in NY will know about specific Fox parts. Also Jay Schachter at VFI Guns -Grand Rapids, MI.

The recommendation to take the Fox carefully apart, with a smith -is excellent advice.
One can learn from a good gunsmith. Sometimes a good internal cleaning will fix the problem as crud or even a bit of rust
can cause problems in the action.

This is particularly valuable, as I own three AH Fox shotguns -all built in the teens or early 1920s.