doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com French sidelever hammer gun arrived - Questions

And don't forget the Belgian enterprising individuals(Rubber Plant owners, etc.), and their ruling sect, as they too are to blame for the situation in Afrika.

Serbus,

Raimey
rse

Thank you gentlemen. All that is very fascinating. I did not know Bernard was so famous and influential barrel maker. I have a 20 gauge Gastinne Renette shotgun with Bernard barrels also, which I had posted in this forum a few years back.
What would you do with a gun like that? Would you undertake a complete restoration, refinishing the barrels, wood, etc.? or leave it as is? If it is all in good shape and the barrels are sound, would you enjoy shooting it, using light loads, (i.e. RST shells or similar?). which gun artists would you recommend?
BillK

That Bill, is frankly beyond my ken. I shoot my guns. But this one is pretty neat, the only question being what would you shoot in it? With no proof marks, you can assume it was made for black-powder. I've always assumed low pressure modern shot-shells could be used in black powder guns but again...defer to the vast experience on this board. Whatever, it is quite an excellent purchase.

But at this point the chamber length itself is not clear and that is something I'd be interested in. We found references to chambers in French shotguns in the 1880's as long as 90mm (3.5"). And are you sure of the bore size? and barrel wall thickness?

I intent to hire the services of a well qualified gunsmith to evaluate the gun and answer all these questions. If it deemed worthy of shooting, I would only shoot it with light type shot loads, like RST shot shells. I am not looking to shot it extensively, but on a special occasion, it would be a wonderful experience. I would love for the forum members to recommend me some of the gunsmiths, wood finishers, and damascus/twist barrel refinishers whom they have great experience with using their services. Personally, I have used the services of Kirk Merrington and Gunter Pfrommer in the past, both with great results. I am just curious to find out given the fact of its origin (French), age, and type of this gun. BillK

I see everyone else finally picked up what I'd forgotten (or maybe never knew): There was no Paris proofhouse prior to 1897.

Salut Argo44
http://www.littlegun.be/arme%20belge/artisans%20identifies%20no/a%20neumann%20freres%20fr.htm

https://www.auction.fr/_fr/lot/a-beautiful-cased-pair-of-target-pistols-by-coirier-3111355

La maison Coirier (fondée sous l'appellation d'origine Marquis Coirier Suc. T et F) située au 4 Boulevard des Italiens à Paris fut fabriquant et détaillant d'armes fines depuis la fondation de leur fabrique collective et de leur atelier en 1848. La maison participa, entre autres, à l’exposition Universelle de Paris en 1855 et 1867 ainsi que celle de Londres en 1862.
https://www.naturabuy.fr/EXCELLENT-REVOLVER-380-PROCHE-DU-NEUF-item-3600305.html

A ma connaissance, le banc d'épreuve de Paris a ouvert en 1895. Avant, je doute fort que beaucoup de canonniers et fabricants d'armes descendaient à Saint-Etienne pour éprouver leur production.
Comme l'a dit Pierre Didier, en 1878 il y avait deux poids deux mesures : Paris et le reste de la France.

PS : WC doit aller pas trop mal. Il passe de temps en temps sur Passion la chasse.

>>Ein Dekret vom 7. November 1895 wemächtigate die Pariser Handelskammer gleichfalls eine Beschußanstalt zu gründen. Die Ausführungsbestimmungen, die denen von St. Etienne gleichlautend waren, wurden am 30. Juli 1897 veröffentlicht. <<


So yes you are most correct fab500. So it was a rules change in 1897 & the Paris Proof facility(le banc d'épreuve de Paris) opened its doors in 1895. I am still curious if it was in or close to Bernard's shop?


I am pleased to hear that „Bétail enlisé” is still galloping about......


Serbus,

Raimey
rse

Both Merrington and Pfrommer are excellent. From the French perspective it might be worthwhile for you to contact J.J. Perodeau about your lovely hammergun since he is French and he might be able to help you historically. JJ Perodeau, Gunmaker, Inc. 711S 263rd West Ave., Sand Springs, OK 74063

Merci comme d'habitude FAB.

Here is a translation of his post:

The firm of COIRIER (note spelling) (founded under the original name of Marquis Coirier Suc. T and F) situated at 4 Boulevard des Italiens in Paris made and finished fine arms from the foundation of their factory and workshop in 1848. The company participated in, among others, the Paris Universal Esposition in 1855 and in 1867 as well as London in 1862.

As far as I know, the Paris proof house opened in i1895. Before, I strongly doubt that a lot of barrel makers and arms makers went down to Saint-Entienne to have their products proofed. As Pierre Dider said, in 1878 there were two different weights and measures, those for Paris and those for the rest of France. (See the article posted above)

PS: Wildcattle is not doing too badly. He spends some time on Passion la Chasse (French gun chat website)

Translation from below:

This is the correct spelling (COIRIER). I haven't been able to find when Francis Marquis gave his workshop to Coirier.

https://i.goopics.net/ofmu7y.jpg

C'est la bonne orthographe. Par contre, je n'ai pas trouvé quand Francis Marquis a cédé son atelier à Coirier.