March
S M T W T F S
1 2
3 4 5 6 7 8 9
10 11 12 13 14 15 16
17 18 19 20 21 22 23
24 25 26 27 28 29 30
31
Who's Online Now
6 members (Hugh Lomas, Der Ami, Marc Ret, SKB, 2 invisible), 257 guests, and 2 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Statistics
Forums10
Topics38,374
Posts543,999
Members14,391
Most Online1,131
Jan 21st, 2024
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 2 of 2 1 2
Tamid #617964 08/11/22 08:56 AM
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 6,264
Likes: 196
Sidelock
***
Offline
Sidelock
***

Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 6,264
Likes: 196
Pipeliner, the A and B Grades could be specially ordered , depending on choices available. I have a late B Grade with a straight stock, 26" barrels, single trigger, and ejectors. Engraving is just a scroll layout.
Drew, the earliest R Grades used a scroll engraving motif, somewhat like the S Grade, but more detail.

Tamid #617967 08/11/22 09:46 AM
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 6,264
Likes: 196
Sidelock
***
Offline
Sidelock
***

Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 6,264
Likes: 196
Here are a few pictures related to the A and B grades. Hanging tags, shipping crates, and what may be an original case for an A grade owned by a Maine sea captain. The hanging tags are for an earlier B grade and not related to the cased A Grade.

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

Last edited by Daryl Hallquist; 08/11/22 09:52 AM.
1 member likes this: Drew Hause
Tamid #617969 08/11/22 10:10 AM
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 5,883
Likes: 106
Sidelock
***
Online Content
Sidelock
***

Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 5,883
Likes: 106
R-Grade from 1905 Catalog --

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

R-Grade with the scroll --

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

R-Grade from 1909 Catalog --

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

S-Grade 1905 Catalog --

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

Tamid #617972 08/11/22 10:29 AM
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 9,398
Likes: 307
Sidelock
***
Offline
Sidelock
***

Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 9,398
Likes: 307
The R grade engraving change appears to have been 1907

February 1906 "The Baker Gunner"

[Linked Image from photos.smugmug.com]

February 1907 "The Baker Gunner"

[Linked Image from photos.smugmug.com]

Tamid #617973 08/11/22 10:58 AM
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 6,264
Likes: 196
Sidelock
***
Offline
Sidelock
***

Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 6,264
Likes: 196
Here's an example of the early R engraving. As I recall this was serial Number 200,001, so it was either the first or second R Grade produced.

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

Last edited by Daryl Hallquist; 08/11/22 11:01 AM.
Tamid #617974 08/11/22 10:59 AM
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 5,883
Likes: 106
Sidelock
***
Online Content
Sidelock
***

Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 5,883
Likes: 106
That is quite the slow load on that hang tag. Only 2 3/4 drams of E.C. pushing 1 1/4 ounce of shot.

Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 6,264
Likes: 196
Sidelock
***
Offline
Sidelock
***

Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 6,264
Likes: 196
Dave, that gun is probably in the 1893-1894 vintage. Would that be an uncommon load for guns of that vintage ?

Tamid #617976 08/11/22 11:38 AM
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 6,264
Likes: 196
Sidelock
***
Offline
Sidelock
***

Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 6,264
Likes: 196
A note found inside of the case of the cased A Grade above.
It reads " Do not use high powered shells in this gun.
The manufacturer says to use the old type powder.
Dad"

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

1 member likes this: BrentD, Prof
Tamid #617977 08/11/22 12:23 PM
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 9,398
Likes: 307
Sidelock
***
Offline
Sidelock
***

Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 9,398
Likes: 307
The Overland Monthly, Oct. 1895 “Smokeless Powder For Shotguns”
http://books.google.com/books?id=Wv0MAQAAIAAJ&pg=PA442&lpg
3 1/4 Dram /40 grains DuPont Bulk Smokeless 1 1/8 oz. (1255 fps) = 7440 psi
3 1/4 Dram /44 grains “E.C.” Bulk Smokeless 1 1/8 oz. = 7584 psi
Plus 10-14% for modern piezo transducer numbers

The standard load on 12g L.C. Smith hang tags c. 1887 - about 1920 was 3 Dram 1 1/4 oz. shot (1165 fps)

A c. 1891 12g Parker was patterned with 1 1/4 oz. and 42 grains (3 1/4 Dram) DuPont Bulk

Live Bird loads were usually 1 1/4 oz. 3 1/2 Dr. Eq.

"Old type powder probably refers to Bulk (DuPont, "E.C." or "Schultze") and not Dense Smokeless (Ballistite and "Infallible") which ran 1000 - 1500 psi higher

Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 5,883
Likes: 106
Sidelock
***
Online Content
Sidelock
***

Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 5,883
Likes: 106
Originally Posted by Daryl Hallquist
Dave, that gun is probably in the 1893-1894 vintage. Would that be an uncommon load for guns of that vintage ?

The March 1893 UMC "Loaded Shells" price list offers both their TRAP and SMOKELESS shells in 12-gauge with 1 1/4-ounce of shot propelled by 2 3/4, 3 or 3 1/4 drams of E.C.

Last edited by Researcher; 08/11/22 02:10 PM.
Page 2 of 2 1 2

Link Copied to Clipboard

doublegunshop.com home | Welcome | Sponsors & Advertisers | DoubleGun Rack | Doublegun Book Rack

Order or request info | Other Useful Information

Updated every minute of everyday!


Copyright (c) 1993 - 2024 doublegunshop.com. All rights reserved. doublegunshop.com - Bloomfield, NY 14469. USA These materials are provided by doublegunshop.com as a service to its customers and may be used for informational purposes only. doublegunshop.com assumes no responsibility for errors or omissions in these materials. THESE MATERIALS ARE PROVIDED "AS IS" WITHOUT WARRANTY OF ANY KIND, EITHER EXPRESS OR IMPLIED, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, THE IMPLIED WARRANTIES OF MERCHANT-ABILITY, FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE, OR NON-INFRINGEMENT. doublegunshop.com further does not warrant the accuracy or completeness of the information, text, graphics, links or other items contained within these materials. doublegunshop.com shall not be liable for any special, indirect, incidental, or consequential damages, including without limitation, lost revenues or lost profits, which may result from the use of these materials. doublegunshop.com may make changes to these materials, or to the products described therein, at any time without notice. doublegunshop.com makes no commitment to update the information contained herein. This is a public un-moderated forum participate at your own risk.

Note: The posting of Copyrighted material on this forum is prohibited without prior written consent of the Copyright holder. For specifics on Copyright Law and restrictions refer to: http://www.copyright.gov/laws/ - doublegunshop.com will not monitor nor will they be held liable for copyright violations presented on the BBS which is an open and un-moderated public forum.

Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5
(Release build 20201027)
Responsive Width:

PHP: 7.0.33-0+deb9u11+hw1 Page Time: 0.071s Queries: 37 (0.047s) Memory: 0.8540 MB (Peak: 1.8988 MB) Data Comp: Off Server Time: 2024-03-28 15:18:45 UTC
Valid HTML 5 and Valid CSS