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#618748 08/29/22 10:55 AM
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I cant for the life of me figure out if this stalking rifle is 9.3x72r or if its a variant of that cartridge. I read a good number of threads on the 9.3x72r changes but the case dimensions dont seem to have changed enough to prevent older guns from chambering modern 9.3x72r ammunition
[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]
proof mark

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]
wax cast and case


[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]
*this is a factory new case, not loaded ammunition or fired brass
*I know the caliper says .320, I re-measured it in a more stable position. The measurement came to be .312. This obviously doesnt include rim thickness

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]
Slugged the bore with a .40cal soft lead musket ball. Groove is .365-.366"

Looks like i need to cerosafe it. I'd really like to use this rifle for opening day. Has anyone had success ordering 9.3x72r reamers?

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Is the brass sized? How does the throat of the case measure compared to the specs on a 9.3x72R chamber? You can coat the case with a sharpie to see if it is binding towards the mouth of the case or the base. Could it be chambered for a 57 mm case? The .360 2&1/4" or the European equivalent? I sold a British rifle chambered for the 2&7/16" round, I bet the continental guns had odd ball lengths too.


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[Linked Image from armedconflicts.com]

https://www.armedconflicts.com/topic/view/116611#

no pun intended but i believe thats the case and you are right on the money

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How about a 9.3x82R? If so, it wouldn't hurt hurt to shoot 9.3x72R in it - sort of like shooting a 22 short in a long rifle chamber. Whoops, I see now that the chamber may be shorter or slightly tighter but what I don't see is where the rifling begins. Using Cerrosafe instead of wax would give a much better idea of the chamber, especially if it was blocked long enough to include a bit of the rifling. The key is the length at which the rifling starts.

Last edited by HalfaDouble; 08/29/22 02:25 PM.
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Sounds about right, I think the 57R case is the most common after the 72R and 74R variants. You should be able to trim 72R brass to 57mm and fire form. I'm not to familiar with the ballistic on the European variant but from the proof marks I believe it calls for a 283 grain bullet at about 1650 fps. Very similar to the .360 2&1/4" NE.


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Originally Posted by HalfaDouble
How about a 9.3x82R? If so, it wouldn't hurt hurt to shoot 9.3x72R in it - sort of like shooting a 22 short in a long rifle chamber. Whoops, I see now that the chamber may be shorter or slightly tighter but what I don't see is where the rifling begins. Using Cerrosafe instead of wax would give a much better idea of the chamber, especially if it was blocked long enough to include a bit of the rifling. The key is the length at which the rifling starts.

I'm leaning that way. I still have a lot to learn about reloading though. I'm unsure if i'd be too much pressure/bolt thrust if i reamed it to 72r

Originally Posted by SKB
Sounds about right, I think the 57R case is the most common after the 72R and 74R variants. You should be able to trim 72R brass to 57mm and fire form. I'm not to familiar with the ballistic on the European variant but from the proof marks I believe it calls for a 283 grain bullet at about 1650 fps. Very similar to the .360 2&1/4" NE.

SKB, after googling your suggestion i found:
https://www.doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=405731&page=1


I'm going to cerosafe the chamber. I believe you are right on the money

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journeymen,
The 118.35 mark on your rifle is the bore (not groove or bullet) diameter, expressed in gauge measurement. In my experience, this most often found on rifles with .358-.359" groove diameter. Also it is found on several different old 9.3 nominal cartridges and often the 9x58R S&S. This mark was used before 1912 and at this time there were different case forms. In terms of the number of rifles made, yours is likely chambered for one of the 9.3x72R cartridges. For this reason, I recommend you make or have made a Cerrosafe chamber cast. The wax chamber cast will show general case form, but not precise measurements. At the time this rifle was made, there were "D"(Deutsche), "E"(English), 360, and "N"(Normalizert or standardized). Based on the above photos, I think you may have the "D" form 9.3x72R. The case that would not fully enter the chamber is likely the "N" form case, since it is the one that is generally available now. The "N" form was intended as a compromise to allow one cartridge to be used in the other three rifles by a minor rechambering. Many rifles were so altered without the requirement to have them reproofed because the "N" form ammunition was loaded to the appropriate pressure for all and a bullet that is safe in various diameter barrels. If you run an "N" reamer into a "D" form chamber, you remove only a minimum amount of chips. If you have a "D" form chamber and don't want to rechamber it, if you dieform a "N" case and fireform it in your rifle, you can then load it using the common "N" dies (The chamber wall will prevent such expansion that the case won't chamber). You can physically size a loaded "N" cartridge in a 38-55 die so it will chamber, but you would need a file/trim die, or the type sizing die that holds the decaping rod in a separate threaded bushing, so that removing it will allow the bullet to pass through the die. If you do that, you will have to decide on your own to do it as I am not advising you to do it. Also, due to the 9.3 case being a few thousandths larger than 38-55, you can't, nor do you need to size it all the way to the rim. I hope this helps. It could still be one of the other cartridges.
MIKE

Last edited by Der Ami; 09/02/22 06:55 PM.
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Originally Posted by Der Ami
The 118.35 mark on your rifle is the bore (not groove or bullet) diameter, expressed in gauge measurement.
MIKE

Good info, my mistake in thinking that was the bullet weight in grams.

Strange co-incidence though, 118.35 grams is 283.18 grains.

Thanks for setting me straight Mike.


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The factory load for the 9.3x72R used a bullet around 200 grains, the 9.3x57R around 170 to 200 grains (Accurate molds has several in this area), Some folks have luck using the standard Lyman 366408 at 250 grains.

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SKB,
A bullet that heavy would be OK for more modern 9.3s (9.3X57{M88}/62/64/74, etc.) but the standard bullet for the 9.3x72R N is the 193 grain Express type bullet. Formally other bullets were used such as 185 or 200 grain in jacketed bullets or in black powder rifles 250/260/280 grain lead (note, 9.3 jacketed bullets are too hard for 9.3x72R).

HalfaDouble,
The Lyman 366408 was one of the most common cast bullets for 9.3x72R and it served many people, especially those with black powder rifles. Many with nitro proofed rifles for lighter bullets were disappointed with this bullet's accuracy. This problem was often addressed by facing off the mold until it drops about 200 grain bullets. My favorite is the 208 grain H&G 512c, but this is no longer available. The rifles with .358-.359" barrels can use the 185-200 grain 35 Remington bullets or any of the various jacketed or lead pistol bullets. For slightly larger than .358 barrels, there was an old Lyman mold for 38 bullets thar dropped from the mold as 173 grain SWC .362" and would be useable in a great many rifles.

Mike

Last edited by Der Ami; 09/02/22 06:59 PM.
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