doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com reloading 12 gauge 2"

When I sold my 2" I gave the new owner my loading notes. I did not give him any loaded shells. My favorite was Federal Paper hulls, cut down and loaded with felt and card stock, then roll crimped. They were very cute little bundles. Those I had left over got shot up in a couple 2 1/2" guns I had on hand long before I heard about the clumping issues. My luck held and no ill effects came of it. But I would not do it again and I also would not shoot any factory ammo from Lyavlale. My fillings and guns do not need any stress testing.

I guess I have just come to the conclusion that a 2" 12 is in the same basket as a 24 or 32 gauge. Nothing that different to them when other guns are so close in performance in the 2 1/2" 12, 24/28, 28/32/.410. But different guns to fill a itch is fine for me, my itch has passed.

What powder did you use to scratch that itch?

The British eventually approved a lighter proof for 2" 12's. I believe that was about the same time that they changed from the 1925 proof rules to the 1954 proof rules. (The "tons" rules.) Found the reference. Here it is, from Vic Venters' book "Gun Craft", from former Birmingham proofmaster Roger Lees: "In general, it may be said that under the new rules of proof (reference to 1954 rules) no arm will receive a more severe proof than hitherto. Some, such as the 12 bore 2 inch and 4 and 8 bore guns, will now receive a less severe proof than they received heretofore."

More recently, when Arrieta made some 2" 12's, those guns were given a heavier proof than British 2" 12s. The guns themselves were also heavier, weighing as much as some light British 2 1/2" 12's.

I've been working on 2" loads for not quite a year now. I bought at auction a 2" Arrieta a while ago. I've run all my tests with Precision Reloading testing. What I've found is cut down reifenhauser plastic and Federal paper (haven't tried Remington or Fiocchi paper but Winchester is a no go) are the the best, couldn't get AA formed hulls to work. The powders that Ive tried have been Green Dot, Bullseye, Clays and Titewad. The best results I've had so far is using Clays with Ballistic 12x12 gas seal and a 3/8" wad with either 6 point fold or roll crimp, both 7/8oz. and 3/4" oz. Bullseye is also very good but a lot dirtier. The average pressure/velocity I get with Clays is: 7267/1233, 7/8 oz 6pt. fold; 5498/1233 3/4 oz. 6 pt. fold. With Bullseye: 7795/1199, 7/8 oz. 6 pt. fold. The roll crimps reduce the pressure only very slightly on average and a very sight increase in velocity. It's about a horse apiece between roll and star crimp and I use one or the other depending on the bulk of the powder. I found that Green Dot and Titewad and Green Dot give give overall higher pressures for the same velocities than Clays or Bullseye.
In trying to get a full fiber load I tried .135 and .200 nitro cards and 3/8 wads. All were inconsistant but Clays showed promise. By using a 1/2" wad with the nitro card I got a better seal. I've just sent out to Precision some plastic and paper hulls using Clays and fiber components...we'll see.

I loaded Clays, AS30N, the Australian version. The current powder from Canada, APS350, is slightly different I am told. I never loaded plastic hulls, just Federal paper and roll crimped them all. At the time I had about 30,000 Federal paper hulls and I thought a paper hull was more fitting for a 2" double. I would trim them in lots of 50 when my 2 3/4" hulls started to have their end fray but before they started pinholes above the brass. I tried Bullseye and did not mind the dirty bore but they seemed louder. If I had to load today I might look at 20/28 or Winchester 572 loads. They would require testing but I have a lot of respect for those powder in lighter loads.

Loads listed here for 2 inch

https://www.hodgdonreloading.com/reloading-data-center

But I like Red Dot and 7/8 ounce shot

Mike

Yes, I know those two. It was the first place I looked. But it's not much to choose from the powder is not available now, and may never be. The wad????

I was surprised that 2" isn't even mentioned on Alliant's website. It is going to be a deeper dive than I expected, but seems like it will be doable in the end.

I like Red Dot a lot. There may will be others.

Brent, most 2" chamber guns were made in the 1930's. When they first came out the Proof House insisted on the same Proof Charge as for 2 1/2" chamber guns hence the early ones showing 1 1/8th.ounce on the marks. Eventually, the Gun Trade and Proof House reached a compromise and Proof Tested them for a lighter load. They were never intended to shoot anything more than 7/8th. ounce loads. I do load and use Vectan AS powder which may not be available to you. Here in the U.K. Lyalvale make ammo but they have plastic wads and can also be a bit smart on recoil. Luckily Eley still make them with a nice felt wad and are much easier to shoot. They are fast handling guns that give very good patterns. It would be hard to find one made new now unless someone could find an old action that had been lying about in some old Gunmaker's cupboard and could be finished. They can be sourced second hand and often fetch a premium price over longer chambered guns. I am pleased to own a little 2" chambered Tolley. These guns weigh around 5 1/2 pounds. Lagopus.....

Thanks! I have been learning quite a bit more about them now. I'm not sure I'll ever find one that fits me, my pocketbook, and my tastes, but I can only look. After a bit of searching and lots of help from numerous folks, I think I can reload for one. A quick handling gun with a good pattern is just the ticket for grouse, which are becoming a major hunting interest.

I was hoping they would fetch a minimal price due to the odd ammo requirements. I could look for a similarly light and quick 20 or 16, but I really like the idea of a skinny 12 for some reason.

My 1936 Hellis 2" is proofed for 7/8oz. but the guy I got it from gave me a bunch of RST's that are 15/16oz. So far so good....