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Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Nov 2006
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Hate to ask as this probably been asked a 100 time before. I'm picking up a 20 gauge Model 21 skeet this week choked WS1 anD WS2. What would be the choke restrictions on those chokes?
Mike Proctor
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Joined: Jan 2002
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Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 5,883 Likes: 106 |
WS-1 about .006" 2 1/2-inches back from the muzzle and then flare to the muzzle. Remington's SKEET choke on their Models 31 & 32 and Sportsman Skeet Guns was very similar. WS-2 about .015" way too tight for NSSA Skeet.
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Parabola |
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 9,398 Likes: 307
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 9,398 Likes: 307 |
Capt. E.C. Crossman “Skeet Gun Patterns” in August 1936 Hunting & Fishing
He formerly believed…“the proper boring for a double 12 Skeet gun consisted of an improved cylinder right for Station 8 and incomers, and a much tighter tube on the left for the outgoers and all singles except Station 8; such a boring as improved modified or the famous Winchester No. 2 Skeet, or in barrel measurements, around .015”.” But now feels “the Winchester No. 2 Skeet boring is too tight…” and “improved cylinder or No. 1 boring is both barrels seems about the right dope.” He went on to criticize the Cutts spreader tube on single barrel guns for skeet, but did not define the tube diameter. He mentioned a Fox with .011” left and a Model 32 Remington “bored for skeet” lower barrel .012”.
“Improved cylinder is the greatest degree to which a plain barrel should be opened, this being not less than .004”. The finest example of this at present is the Winchester No. 1 Skeet boring, which has about .004 choke at a point 3” from the muzzle. The muzzle section then becomes larger…until finally the barrel at the muzzle is about …0.750” instead of the normal 0.730” of the 12. This is a relieved muzzle or bell muzzle, originated by Ithaca years ago.”
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Parabola |
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Joined: Dec 2020
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Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Dec 2020
Posts: 886 Likes: 352 |
I have a Valmet Skeet Over and Under marked SKEET on each tube.
Anyone know what their formula was?
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 11,372 Likes: 103
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 11,372 Likes: 103 |
Good to remember that skeet was originally a very different game than it is today. Shooters called for their birds from an unmounted gun position. And there was a variable 0-3 seconds delay on the release.
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Joined: Jan 2002
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Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 13,127 Likes: 1129 |
The idea of a "flaring" of the muzzle's bore is not lost on several choke tube manufacturers today, who have had in their line of constrictions a "Negative" tube, for years. Unlike Winchester's WS-1 however a "negative" tube flares from a cylinder diameter, to the muzzle. I have been given a few for different guns by a close friend who is in the business, which flare to -.005", and have patterned them extensively in comparison to a cylinder tube. I've never been able to discern a difference between the CYL tube and the NEG tube. The NEG is used mostly for close rabbits and very close, erratic aerial presentations, by those trying to "buy" an extra target or two in a round. I dare say, I believe few of those shooters have ever patterned them against a CYL tube.
May God bless America and those who defend her.
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Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 1,109 Likes: 91
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 1,109 Likes: 91 |
At the risk of getting off topic, I had an Army/Navy hammergun with Cyl in both barrels. It broke targets at long range very effectively.
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Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 14,092 Likes: 192
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 14,092 Likes: 192 |
For NSSA skeet and International Skeet, there is no reason for anything tighter than .000. International Skeet shootoffs demand some choke in the second barrel for reverse doubles, but at 77 years old, I don't worry about International shootoffs any more. In years past, intelligent shooters didn't worry about any choke constriction. We see that in the occasional double barrel skeet gun bored Skeet 1 or Skeet In in both barrels. I recently purchased a Parker 28 gauge skeet gun bored cylinder in both 28" barrels. Talk about a shooter who was ahead of his time. Another example is the unique AHE grade Parker skeet bored Skeet In in both barrels, effectively cylinder bore.
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Joined: Jan 2006
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Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 9,398 Likes: 307 |
There are as many choke profiles (almost) as gunmakers and barrel borers This is from Das Jagdlexikon and Skeet 1 shows the muzzle flare B would be the "taper choke" or "taper bore" which was part of many doublegun maker's hyperbolic advertising verbiage at the turn-of-the-century - the least "kick" (A very few Lefevers have been identified bored gradually from breech to muzzle) A.J. Aubrey Fox 1911 This illustration was in Sporting Classics, "Choke Tube Mysteries Explained" but I don't know the original source
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 11,372 Likes: 103
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 11,372 Likes: 103 |
Re patterning, I expect that the late Bob Brister probably did as much of that--including at moving targets--than pretty much any of the classic shotgun writers. Brister has high praise for cylinder: "I believe that the average shooter going for waterhole doves, brush-country quail, and woodcock anywhere would get more birds with absolutely no choke at all."
Concerning the negative chokes, he mentions the fact that Russian Olympic shooter Eugene Petrov set what was then a world's record (200 straight international skeet targets) with a gun that was belled out to about .830 at the muzzle. How much does it help to shoot a gun like that compared to one that is conventional cylinder? Maybe not enough to bother with for most of us. But it would appear that those negative chokes don't seem to hurt.
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