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Forums10
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Most Online695
Nov 17th, 2023
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Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 953 Likes: 44
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 953 Likes: 44 |
In my case I bought a 20 gauge 21 sold in 1941 as a Field grade. In 1946 it went back to Winchester to have the wood replaced and the gun engraved with the grade 6 pattern.
I paid as if it was a Field grade with non factory engraving since the factory records indicated it was sold as a basic field grade.
After purchasing I was able to get the records from Pauline showing it had been restocked and then engraved by George Ulrich.
I feel that in this case the factory work added some significant value to my gun.
I have since added a 410 and 28 gauge barrel set I purchased in the white. Im not sure how much value the factory engraving added but I like to think
It adds a fair amount I Just hope the added barrels which were done 100% correct will add some substantial value to the gun when it is time to part with it.
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Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 6,344 Likes: 300
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 6,344 Likes: 300 |
But one cannot go wrong with "buy what you like". . You mean like buying a ticket on the submersible Titan to view the Titanic? Well, I was thinking more like guns, and quarter million ticket would buy a pretty darn nice gun. But if you want to catch a ride on a submersible, be my guest. Drop off those rifles at my place for safe keeping while you are down there. 
_________
BrentD, (Professor - just for Stan)
...never pay Dave "one more dime"
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Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 6,344 Likes: 282
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 6,344 Likes: 282 |
To add to the conversation.....
I know of a Winchester Model 21 that was passed around to several well-known gunsmiths (who do wonderful work) over a period of several years to fix what was thought to be a basic repair issue. But after each of the well-known gunsmiths worked on it, there were continuing issues with the M21 that didn't get "fixed" to the owner's complete satisfaction, so the owner sent the M21 to the "factory" to have the factory work on it. Certainly the factory would resolve all issues and problems. But the factory wasn't able to do any better to straighten things out than the prior individual gunsmiths that had worked on it. Then the owner was told, "If you want the M21 fixed correctly and stop the aggravation once and for all, you need to take it to Gunter Pfrommer....he will fix it, and you will not have any more problems." I was told Gunter identified the issues with the M21 as soon as he inspected the shotgun....and Gunter did the repairs. The owner has never had another issue with that M21's performance.
Frankly, when it comes to repairs...especially complex repairs...I want Gunter Pfrommer or someone with similar training and skills working on my firearms. The factory may make them, but it doesn't mean they're the best to fix them when there is a problem...or restore them. Many, many smiths fix the symptom. Very few have the knowledge and take the time to discern the originating problem first, fix that and then fix the downstream issues.
The world cries out for such: he is needed & needed badly- the man who can carry a message to Garcia
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 5,197 Likes: 66
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 5,197 Likes: 66 |
But one cannot go wrong with "buy what you like". . You mean like buying a ticket on the submersible Titan to view the Titanic? Well, I was thinking more like guns, and quarter million ticket would buy a pretty darn nice gun. But if you want to catch a ride on a submersible, be my guest. Drop off those rifles at my place for safe keeping while you are down there. I wouldn't mind taking a trip on that. As long as it didn't have AYA written all over it. I would want it to be original.  Then again, I could take a Model 21 along and use it as a boat anchor, as Pete Hyatt always called them.
Last edited by Jimmy W; 06/26/23 03:18 PM.
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 5,197 Likes: 66
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 5,197 Likes: 66 |
You people are trying to mix apples and oranges. There is a huge difference between the local gunsmith putting a front bead on a gun that has been lost and getting original engraving by one of the Winchester engravers in one of the Winchester patterns. If you look at Steve Barnett's website or Jaqua's or any dealer, they are going to ask LESS for a Model 21 that has engraving that is not the original Winchester pattern. Jaqua's had two Model 21s one had the 21-4 (I believe) that you could see was the Winchester pattern, and another Model 21 that says "custom" that I don't believe is an original Winchester pattern and it has been on there for several months now with a fairly low price. So, I believe that if engraving is original, the dealers are going to ask for a higher. price. And if you can prove it with a letter from Winchester, it will command a higher price............Now, someone might come along and see a gun that has engraving that isn't original, they love the gun, the engraving and the lower price and that found a nice gun. You can't tell that person that they got a crappy gun just because they bought a gun that they are going to enjoy and you don't like it because it's not original........And a lot of guns went back to Winchester and got upgraded and there is no proof that they did so. So, you never know. I would never run down a guy's gun that he enjoys shooting if I notice that the engraving isn't original. I like things original but maybe the next guy doesn't. .
Last edited by Jimmy W; 06/26/23 03:16 PM.
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Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 11,187 Likes: 288
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 11,187 Likes: 288 |
I gave less than 10.
Factory restocked and restored in 1977.
With a nice 20 gauge going for 8-10, you do the math.
30” Full/Full is pretty tight for Skeet but a scarce desirable set nonetheless.
So back to the original question.
What’s the conventional wisdom on factory work? I think the time to ask that question would be before buying the gun, not afterward... ... unless you low-balled the seller and offered him less money after telling him the gun was not factory original, and therefore worth less than an original gun with original stock, and had not been refinished. So the question becomes, what will you say in your advertisements when you flip it for a profit?
A true sign of mental illness is any gun owner who would vote for an Anti-Gunner like Joe Biden.
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Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 1,532 Likes: 71
Sidelock
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OP
Sidelock
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 1,532 Likes: 71 |
…Then again, I could take a Model 21 along and use it as a boat anchor, as Pete Hyatt always called them. So here’s my 20 gauge Model 21 sporting her 30” barrels. At 6 lbs 11 oz. I can assure you, “boat anchor” she is not. ![[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]](https://i.imgur.com/OnLTO2X.jpg) I have always suspected that most folks who insist on using that vernacular have little or no experience with Model 21’s or boat anchors for that matter.
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1 member likes this:
DoubleTake |
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 12,842 Likes: 889
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 12,842 Likes: 889 |
Pretty is as pretty does. I will never disparage the gun used by the man who outshoots me.
May God bless America and those who defend her.
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1 member likes this:
John Roberts |
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 5,197 Likes: 66
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 5,197 Likes: 66 |
…Then again, I could take a Model 21 along and use it as a boat anchor, as Pete Hyatt always called them. So here’s my 20 gauge Model 21 sporting her 30” barrels. At 6 lbs 11 oz. I can assure you, “boat anchor” she is not. I have always suspected that most folks who insist on using that vernacular have little or no experience with Model 21’s or boat anchors for that matter. Gorgeous!!
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Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 6,344 Likes: 300
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 6,344 Likes: 300 |
…Then again, I could take a Model 21 along and use it as a boat anchor, as Pete Hyatt always called them. So here’s my 20 gauge Model 21 sporting her 30” barrels. At 6 lbs 11 oz. I can assure you, “boat anchor” she is not. I have always suspected that most folks who insist on using that vernacular have little or no experience with Model 21’s or boat anchors for that matter. Okay, Kayak anchor then... As long as you like it.
_________
BrentD, (Professor - just for Stan)
...never pay Dave "one more dime"
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