doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Shooting the new 410 tomorrow

A couple of weeks ago I picked up an Orvis /Arrieta upland 410. As typical with most Orvis guns it has short barrels and open chokes. It has 27" barrels choked Cyl. and Imp. Cyl.
I'll be shooting a smorgasbord of 2 1/2" shells , some AA's #9, some 8's and some 7 1/2.
II will be at my regular sporting course and will restrict myself to only stations I feel the little gun will be sufficient.
Any advice before I waste about $80 in ammo?

Sounds like a perfect skeet gun, too. Only advice? Break 'em all dude and have fun!!

Depending on your shooting style, “Give them a little more lead than you would typically.”
I find presentations that you might hit the rear of the target with some guns, become misses with the .410

They are fast to start, and fast to stop, so you have to be aggressive. Including your follow thru.

But if you’re just going to shoot, pre-mounted and sustained lead, just try to put the pattern on the front edge of the target.

Shooting .410 consistently is a demanding mistress.

Have fun with your new shotgun.

Funny, on crossing targets I cut my lead back to keep from shooting in front of the bird. I rarely shoot behind and more often shoot in front. But I have shot a lot of .410 and do not find the lighter gun weight to be a problem. I shoot them aggressively and try to not only get my target line figured out in advance but also exactly where I am going to shoot the bird. Sometimes people think I am too fast but I find riding a bird with a .410 to be very likely to end up in misses. Short swings, quick and decisive shoots works best for me. Do not over think it, do not measure your leads. Be more Churchill type instinctive shooting style, but not so much a true swing through shooter. When the sight picture looks right just pull the trigger instead of checking, verifying and making it too complicated. You most likely will find the slower velocity shells will give you tighter patterns, but the faster one give you more smoke. Have fun, .410's are a blast.

KY Jon's shooting style with .410s mirrors mine. Impossible for me to shoot high averages on doves with one if I don't alter my style from the bigger guns. I begin to track the dove with the muzzle of the .410 at low gun and continue as the mount begins, then when the butt settles into my shoulder pocket I almost instantly trigger the gun. It works to prevent me from shooting too far ahead of a bird with the light, quick guns. My experience is the opposite of CZ's, concerning lead.

The way to shoot a 410 successfully is to forget it's a 410.

I totally disagree. You cannot shoot game birds with a .410 the same as you can a 12 or 16. Aside from the mechanics of the MOI and weight, the payload will not kill at the reaches of a 12 , 16 or even a 20. Forget it's a .410? That's a recipe for disaster, IMO.

While all that may be true, Stan... he's shooting clays.

The decision to shoot a 410 and actually shooting the 410 are two different things.

One must learn the dynamics of the gun, but trying to be extra careful and adjusting leads (my all time favorite is 'front edge of the target') just fouls up everything you've been practicing.

Forget the cartridge.... just shoot. It's a shotgun.

33 yards is about my hard and fast limit for Dove. Before I shoot the first Dove, I place several markers at 30 years. They can be as simple as weeds cut for the purpose, or decoys placed in plain sight. Point is I know what lead I need for an incoming or crossing Dove at 30 yards, it is just harder to know what 30 yards is, depending on the field and background. I take that variable out when I can. I mostly shoot 1/2 ounce loads, running 1250 fps. I can load hotter, faster if you want, but find hotter does not pattern as well most times. Later season Doves are much harder to kill, being fully feather out and all mature birds. For those, if I take a .410, I only use very full chokes with 1300+fps loads, with 7 shot and try to take 25 yard shots when I can.

I am not Wayne Mayes, the greatest .410 Skeet shooter ever. 200 100X 100’s. But out to 30-33 yards I can hold my own with all but a few shooters. Most shooter are bad a range estimation. Many a bird hit at 30 yards is claimed at 40 or 50 plus. And where a bird lands is not a great way to figure out what range it was hit at. I have killed Dove at an honest 30 yards, which were closer to 50 or even 60 when recovered. Moment will carry a dead bird a long ways, if it is under a head of steam and has some height. But no .410 will kill Dove at 50-60 yards.

I shoot .410’s for Sporting Clays all the time. 7- 8,000 birds in the last year. I only struggle on the birds much greater than 40 yards, but am about 50:50 between 30 and 40. I don’t know I would do substantially better with a 12. For sporting clays last year my best score was 91 and worst score was 73 with my .410. I did have one 49X50 but that was a lot of luck. Mostly I am in the low to mid 80’s.

Most sporting clays ranges nearby are in wooded areas and the shots have more small windows than long shots. A few do use a tower but mostly I can find a quick window to give me a decent opportunity. I find too many incomes targets to not be a real challenge on a lot of layouts. To me incomers are gimme birds. You can smoke any incomes, even with a .410. Being aggressive helps with targets like teal, or targets with small windows. I’ll never run a hundred straight, with a .410 at Sporting Clays, but I do enjoy the heck out of shooting it. And I get 800 loadsto the bag of shot.

Another thing. A 1200 fps load in a 12 gauge, at 21 yards l, has about a 30” pattern with Skeet chokes. With a .410, skeet choke the pattern is a lot smaller. I figure nearer to 18-20” of usable pattern, 24” tops. So 15” center to edge versus 10-12” center to edge for the .410. If I shoot the front edge off a bird with a 12 I will be in front of it with a .410. I cut my leads back almost a foot on crossers. A half a foot at a minimum. But I shoot the bird before the center stake and have a gun which is moving. If I spot shoot it m, I use more lead because I have a dead gun. You can shoot doubles on 3,4,5 with a dead gun, never moving it, if you practice. Pick the right spot, never move the gun, and pull the trigger twice as quickly as you can. It’s timing and having the right sight picture. You need to shoot the .410 just like the 12 mentally, but be more aggressive, less deliberate and with finer mechanics and slightly shorter leads.