doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Where did we come from? Where are we now?

While I had owned a Stoeger double I used for cowboy shooting, I didn't really start down the SxS path until I bought an I. Hollis 10 gauge hammer double at some very low prices at an Amoskeag auction. Even with the I. Hollis not remotely a "best" gun, I still found the workmanship far, far beyond the Stoeger. Since then I've bought more SxS, both hammer & side lock, from dedicated gun auction houses, as well as many of the less expensive books about the British SxS's. I doubt I have the budget many of you have, but I've managed to acquire some decent British SxS's, a FN 1930 and a Darne clone in the world's ugliest stock.

I don't hunt, so the SxS's mostly get used for skeet or occasionally sporting clays. I've been shooting a hammered British SxS (J. Burrows) regularly for skeet for years now and this has encouraged several of the skeet shooters to either buy a SxS or dig one out from the back of the safe. They all seem to enjoy shooting their SxS more than their O/U's and I even managed get one to go the Rock Mountain SxS sporting clays match.

Skeet and sporting clays allows me an opportunity to enjoy shooting these wonderful old guns, an enjoyment I doubt I would feel shooting an O/U or semi-auto

My first shotgun was a Savage single barrel with a manually cocked hammer. The first year I was allowed to hunt, one of the neighbors offered to take me with his son and my dad let me take his 16 gauge Stevens Springfield sxs. I killed my first pheasant with the gun and was hooked. My next shotgun was a Bernardelli Gamecock 20 gauge with 25 inch barrels that I got as a graduation present from my parents and (now-ex) wife. I still have and use that gun. Since then, there have been a host of sxs find a home in the vault, about half of which I still have. Of the ones I've sold, I most regret a Greifelt 16 gauge sxs with 29-1/2 inch barrels and tight chokes. If I recall correctly, that briefly lived at Larry Brown's house, from which I'm sure it has long since moved. My favorite today is a William Moore 12 gauge hammer gun with sleeved barrels which I bought off another member of this board. It's my primary pheasant gun, although preserve birds are all that still are available in Pennsylvania. Hammer guns have become something of a passion, with my vault now holding them in 10, 12, 16, 20 and 28 gauge. I've owned a number of O/Us over the years and still have a few and one lonely Remington 870 Express that I bought for the southern NJ duck marshes when I lived there, but the last of my guns to go, should I be required to send them off, will be a sxs and is almost certainly to be the Moore.

I don't know how much the popularity of SxSs has changed but I do know they are lower profile now than a few years ago. I picked up a Shooting Sportsman
man from 2005 awhile back and it was loaded with full page color adds from all the Spanish Makers, Merkel, Verney-Carron and Double gun dealers around the country. Stories were about SxS restoration and repairs. Much of the hunting was done with SxSs. Now its mostly Italian O/Us and unaffordable hunts. On TV There were shows about hunting with SxSs and repairs and restoration of SxSs. Now hunting TV is canned Deer and Hog hunts. They must be easier to film than Chuckers or Grouse with a pointing dog.

It was a good time to build a SxS business. You could sell anything sound with 2 barrels. When the popularity in print and TV faded the entry-level (boxlock extractor 12ga) market faded.

The popularity of SxS shoots is strong. The mid-west lost a few but not from lack of popularity. New well run shoots are doing well.

I was influenced by Evans' "Upland Shooting Life" while living in Morocco (of all places . . . but where the upland hunting was pretty darned good. I acquired a Brittany from a Moroccan hunting partner at about the same time, and that pretty much sealed the deal.) The book came to me via the old Outdoor Life Book Club. Bought my first sxs (Ithaca SKB 150 12ga) at the Navy Rod & Gun Club in Rota, Spain 1972. My other choice was a Winchester 101. I credit Evans with influencing me to go horizontal rather than vertical. But that might not have happened if the Beretta OU I ordered previously from the Gun Club at Torrejon Air Force Base hadn't arrived with a cracked forend.

Other Flatwater veterans may chime in, but I believe the first shoot was 2004. The first UP SxS Classic was a few years prior to that. Expect someone here will remember. The only one I missed was the very first one.

My first classic sxs was a fairly basic between the wars 16ga Sauer. Bought it for myself as a graduation present when I completed my M.A, summer 1974. Had the short chambers lengthened, which I wouldn't do today. And I'd hate to count how many Iowa ringnecks died from lead poisoning administered via high brass 1 1/8 oz loads of 6's. The only failure that gun experienced was when the link between the top lever and the Greener crossbolt broke. Those Sauers are pretty tough guns!

McIntosh's "The Best Shotguns Ever Made in America: Seven Vintage Doubles to Shoot and to Treasure" (1981) certainly stoked an interest in classic American sxs. Before it was published as a book, I believe it appeared as a series of articles in "The Missouri Conservationist" magazine".

By the late 50's, choices in new American sxs were limited to the Savage/Stevens doubles. I'd been hunting with a Stevens single shot .410 handed down to me by my older brother. I wanted one of those Savage/Stevens guns. The only other American-made sxs at that time was the Winchester 21, but it was only available from the custom shop. Additional interest in modern sxs was stoked as Americans came around to accepting that shotguns made in Japan were not cheap junk. Once American makers put their names on those guns (Ithaca on the SKB, Browning on the BSS, and Winchester on the Model 23) that gave those who wanted to buy "American" a choice of solid modern products as well as the vintage guns, which hadn't attracted much interest for a long time.

I'm surprised that there has been no mention of Gough Thomas whose writings I have much enjoyed, going down the doublegun yellow brick road.

My first was a 16-gauge Stevens 311. Many have followed since then.

Sadly, have to agree w/much of Ted's musings but do know a couple of young person's w/the interest and means... and above all, the passion who are already fine shots in their own right that will help to keep the doublegun sporting life alive and have made good acquaintances with several persons younger than I, who enjoy shooting doubleguns at sporty clays. My main hunting bud is now 90 and we still shoot doubleguns at sporty clays together at a couple of places with some frequency when the weather isn't too tough. And we are planning to enjoy some dove hunts here when the season opens that will involve doublegun shooting.

One of our small group of doublegun aficionados is an original Flatwater participant and I met several of the other's, years back.

We've a couple of 'open' doublegun only sporty clays events a year at DGC, thanks to Denny Iker, that see a reasonable turnout of 35~50 shooters, inclusive of out-of-town participants, and they are always good fun w/nice Lewis class awards afterwards tho the emphasis is on FUN and comradery.

Today, the Turks probably get the credit for bringing affordable and reliable doubleguns to the market, and I'm very glad that they are. Someone has to do that to make entry level participation possible. We could stand to have a well read and respected outdoor writer to be an advocate. Alas, none exists in the moment, that I am aware of. Good that there are places like this where diehards still hang out and opinions and knowledge are still shared. Contagion is a good thing... where doubleguns are concerned.

The doublegun yellow brick road requires a marketing twist and financial incentive......

New guy here… growing up my Dad had a SxS nitro special in 16gauge. When my brother and I got older he got other guns and was mainly a deer hunter. But that nitro special was the first shotgun I ever shot and claimed a place in my heart. When he died last year, it came to me. Since then I picked up a Flues and a pristine 20 gauge Nitro special. I’ve read lots, on here and books. I’m not able to spend the kind of money some can..2 kids in college…but I do have a little squirreled away and now I’m bit by the bug. I want a nicer one. Last year we took the Boy Scout troop on a vintage SxS clay shoot. I know my flues isn’t much “field grade” but it is my favorite to shoot. Going to take them again this weekend. Thank you all for the forum and info.

Don’t sell your Nitro short. I keep mine parked in between the good guns, in the safe:



The 16s and 20s come to the shoulder much like a more expensive gun. Many of them have been used very hard, and soldier on to this day. A guy could do much worse for his first double than his Father’s 16 gauge Nitro.

Best,
Ted

I grew up in a small town with ample bird hunting and shotgun/rifle shooting opportunities, but had no interest through high school into graduate school. In about 2006 I inherited my grandfather’s 16ga 870 (60’s vintage) and I stored it in my closet. Then my future FIL introduced me to grouse hunting and I found a use for the 870. He would send me scrambling through the thickest brush and rhododendron thickets while he ideally positioned himself on ridge lines and logging roads where he knew birds would take refuge from my disturbances. Now I understand it was a test of character and perseverance. I actually asked for his daughter’s hand while cleaning a brace of grouse together. Once I short shucked that 870 and missed a bird that presented an easy shot. A few weeks later I had a 16ga Merkel 47E in hand to finish the season. Soon I discovered lightweight British guns (and many of the books referenced above) and the rest is history.

The Nitro Special is a tough, reliable gun. So is the Ithaca Western Long Range, which is basically a less expensive version of the Nitro Special.